Japanese find sex, love, and relationships mostly pointless

[regretfullySaid]

Who doesn't love bacon?

Rhetorically, that is.

[H20nly]

ah! bit the question here really is... who doesn't the bacon love?

[regretfullySaid]

Mind blown

[regretfullySaid]

People are really selfish today (and I don’t mean that in a bad way in this case), want to live life a little, and realize life is hard enough just taking care of their own shit.

I'm sure the number of people who have kids for selfish reasons outweigh that immensely.

I agree if you’re talking about the other “I must create a human being to take care of (take care of me later in life) and carry on my legacy” kind of selfish. Void filling much?

And to appeal to my conservative constituents, there’s also the “I must create a human being so the government can pay for me and them for at least the next 18 years” type selfish.

Maybe my original statement would have been better served using "self involved" instead of "selfish".

It appeals to both, or any reason other than 2 criteria that should be required:

1. They both love (which includes respect) each other and want a child/children
2. They are mentally and economically stable enough to provide a healthy upbringing

So, skipping past the "whoops", entrapment and handout reasons for spawn coming from unstable young adults, we have the more cultural expectations of "because that's what you do at that age". If we only included "no contraception" as part of religious reasons then let's include that into cultural expectation. Those are both unacceptable excuses imo. You shouldn't have a kid by some default.

I'm still debating if it's even selfish to not choose to have kids because you don't want to. Doesn't seem selfish. How much of that comes from the cultural expectation? When does it become a duty? When you and your spouse have proven their worth on a grander scale that logically it follows that their kids will extend the legacy?

Going back to the article I thought it was a combination of 2 things, a cultural breather, and a side-effect of technology.

Finn mentioned the part of them "apologizing for their own existence". I don't know if that comes from the easy to achieve shame from having such high societal standards or not (high suicide rates) + (I always assumed that's why they're so heavy on fantasy) but that's not a small problem. The ex-dominatrix is the voice of reason, people need intimate contact, even shut-ins.

I think the U.S. could use some of this syndrome, but not Japan...(nnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooo!) and the mention of not even enjoying contact...reminds me of a movie I watched recently called Stoker...and it wouldn't be hard to imagine a country that's so heavy on fantasy and suppressing natural needs that you'd end up with some messy manifestations on a cultural level.

It's great if you're sticking it to the man by not following the cultural stereotype, but I think most would be making excuses if they want to go without some intimacy in the long-term. I'm not talking about marriage or even long-term co-habitation, but at least just some good-ol fashioned warm lovin' every now and then, with people who actually care for each other more than sexual needs. I would hope their future doesn't end up so robotic and cold.

[RonaldDumsfeld]

How come they don't have immigrants doing it all for them like everywhere else?

[mikemc]

There are two married couples. All of them work. They are economically equivalent. They both buy "fixer upper" houses.

Then, one couple has kids, the other finds they can't have kids.

The childless couple can travel, spend their income on home improvement and finds they enjoy.

The other couple is economically frozen. After doing a nursery for their first child,heir home improvement plans go on hold. Then two years later they have another.

The childless couple has their share of ups and downs: medical issues, mostly. But not so bad they can't deal with the setbacks.

The couple with kids sinks deeper into debt. Any setback takes months to recover from at the very least. The kids are healthy, thankfully, but they need to do the things kids do: activities, sports, etc..

Twelve years after the first child, the childless couple's husband gets a promotion. His wife, who had some health issues, can afford to work less hours. The couple with kids cannot afford to fix their house. They shop for clothes at goodwill, and only buy what's on sale at the grocery store. One child needs braces. They both need music lessons...

Note, of course, first world problems. Who really "needs" some of these things. But the fact is that once you are married with children you are locked in to society's expectations crosshairs.

[edit] So, given a rational technological society where the emphasis is on material comfort and career success, there is no rational way that a couple would opt for the less advantageous path. By extension, to opt into becoming a couple is a definite tradeoff: a substantial piece of your freedom in return for some pooling of income.

Also, in the US anyway, there is no tax advantage. None. If you have a decent income, only one member of the couple can declare dependents. If you only have 1 or 2 dependents you will still owe taxes, so you declare none.

Essentially, if some woman tricks you into reproducing and supporting her children, socioeconomically speaking you are a fucking idiot.