Ableton 7 it's a joke !!!

Silicon/Silicium · Post by **Silicon/Silicium** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:14 am

You can record automation in session with any plug-in that has its own midi learn. All the stuff I want to automate does have midi learn so this is not a problem for me. Once I purchased Live, I made sure the main 3rd party plug-ins I purchased had this.
This is quite workable.

Well, not at all: eg you record a 4 bars pattern automation with midi cc, and make it play. now try to turn the knob again for some manual tweaking while the automation is running: mess.
This is not the case when you edit a pattern manually automation, then tweak the knob. can you see what I mean (sry for my poor english)? There should be a special recording mode, or somthing like this, to record pattern automation.
This is my only hint about Live, I can't see why it's not worked. Other stuff are great, some are brilliants, but this little limitation is almost a stopper for me.
What is even worse is that I don't know if it will ever happen.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:07 pm

deva wrote:
Silicon/Silicium wrote:One more year to wait for a new chance to get automation recording in session... It's annoying, simply, especially because we don't have any words from the baes about this one. But hell, what about being LIVE and being unable te record what you make... LIVE!

You can record automation in session with any plug-in that has its own midi learn. All the stuff I want to automate does have midi learn so this is not a problem for me. Once I purchased Live, I made sure the main 3rd party plug-ins I purchased had this.

This is quite workable.

Also, racks can fold up now, and unfold. This can allow quite a few previous tracks to be consolidated.Not track folders, but it does help. And of course once you can fold one thing, it is not long for general track folders to get there too

you can also do it with MIDI yoke/IAC/LoopBe etc etc

but it is clumsy and confusing as hell trying to remember what CC43 was when trying to edit it

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:24 pm

Recording CC in Session view...
Touchy subject. I'm disappointed again that its not there. I do however believe that there are enough solutions to make it work.

Lets put things in perspective. Ableton rewrote the MIDI engine. It can now be tested in beta 2. Pretty soon you'll see some results of how tight it is or isn't.
Ableton also stated that they'll be releasing Audio/MIDI fact sheets. This means you'll be able to see how tight they believe it is. And you'll be able to contest it if that isn't the case.

The things I just mentioned are pretty damn essential if we want hair-fine accuracy of recording/playback of our CC's.
And the function is more then just turning a knob and recording it...
We need a Midi-Thinning control, a dry/wet for individual automation envelopes and probably some more things.

The way i see it, you need 2 CC's to control and record 1.
One CC is the one being recorded to your clip. The other one allows you to control the parameter manually without affecting automation.
On the other hand, you would want this controller to be recorded in arrangement view. because the controller allows you to control the intensity of the applied clip automation.

Thats just one solution. Other people have posted their theories.
Its just a matter of having the most stable version of Live as possible.
A lot of energy has gone into fixing loads of bugs. Read Live 6.0.10..... Live 6 has been in beta pretty much all year. If Live 7 actually improves stability (and it is stable as far as i can tell), Ableton wont need a year to make more essential updates to Live.

chrysalis33rpm · Post by **chrysalis33rpm** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:33 pm

Tone Deft wrote:goddamn you guys are negative...

beware the haters who never post but show up to cast widely negative, ill-informed, sweeping generalizations about Live. *cough*trolls*cough*

Yeah, and it seems that there are about as many people complaining that Live 7 doesn't integrate their favorite DAW features as there are people who complain that Live 7 has gone way to far into the DAW camp and needs to focus on its performance instrument roots. Seems like the Abe's got the balance about right!

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:48 pm

chrysalis33rpm wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:goddamn you guys are negative...

beware the haters who never post but show up to cast widely negative, ill-informed, sweeping generalizations about Live. *cough*trolls*cough*
Yeah, and it seems that there are about as many people complaining that Live 7 doesn't integrate their favorite DAW features as there are people who complain that Live 7 has gone way to far into the DAW camp and needs to focus on its performance instrument roots. Seems like the Abe's got the balance about right!

actually it seems like 7 has gone down well this year

I think it was worse last year and the year before because everyone was able to say "they put resources into friggin instruments when they should have done.. [insert personal favourite wish]"

this year people are saying the same until they figure out the synths and content are mostly 3rd party

but actual fact I think if everyone doing the complaining had a beta and got lost in a few mad sessions tweaking their controller on drum rack or something they might see it differently

I'm liking it more and more as I use it - there are some real killer features in this release

Silicon/Silicium · Post by **Silicon/Silicium** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:49 pm

I'm liking it more and more as I use it - there are some real killer features in this release

I m sure you re right, even if I m not in the first beta pool. The video of the drumrack is almost enough to make me update, but I m still afraid: how abletons can "avoid" the session automation recording feature. Thats just my opinion, but I m not confident with Live: each new version has excellent surprises, and killer features, but it's not "reliable", not in terms of stability, but you can't feel confident about what they ll give you. I d really like to have some infos, or a roadmap (even if I also can feel how problematic it could be), that say me "ok we are dealing with this or that, keep on using our software, we ll work on that direction, we can or we can't do that". again sry for my poor english, I try to do my best...

mrweasel · Post by **mrweasel** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:03 pm

Still no support for FADERFOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOX or what?

theguru_ · Post by **theguru_** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:26 pm

I think this suck. As i said earlier i am going to change Logic8. + if i would like those AAS shit i would bought them already. I dont get it why they dont integrate instruments as part of setup. + upgrading price is half of Logic8 and it comes over 40gB stuff. And really those AIC (or whatever) klassical instruments sounds like shit comparing my kontakt where i got vienna+nativeinstruments plugins.
Ableton try even.

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:11 am

PiLLO wrote: these are the things i need from a software:

- dual monitor support

- no limit to 128 automations map

- possibility to record automation to Session view

I am with you on this!!!!

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:14 am

paradiddle wrote:I haven't tried the beta yet but the only thing I'm disappointed with the update is the 128 limit thing. At least we should be able to select which parameters we want to automate even if the limit is 128.

exactly, this is why I am looking elsewhere....

Rosko · Post by **Rosko** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:51 am

They said they are working on automation in session view & was unlikely for 7.
So wasn't expecting it just yet.
Not actually had a bash on the beta yet but would have liked them to have added folder tracks, coloured tracks, track groups, track dividers just some thing to help organize & simplify tracks when you have lots goin on & i would have been happy with just that tbh.
This would have been something that would effect everybody which is something that is maybe missing in this update.
I may be won over when i actually try it though.

PiLLO · Post by **PiLLO** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:51 am

i use ableton since version 4, i always had the new udates the same day the updates was disponible, as soon as live 7 will be disponible i'll do the update!
i work with ableton and i need it!! this is not the question!!

my question is (if you can understand it) that i have read for a lot of time the same users wishlist, so, in live 7 there aren't these features. for example(and is only an example), how many time you have read the users dual monitor wish?
do you think is difficult do do that for a lot of users that ever support ableton?

TITBAG · Post by **TITBAG** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:20 am

people still use midi?? that shit is RELIC

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:39 pm

hoffman2k wrote:Recording CC in Session view...
Touchy subject. I'm disappointed again that its not there. I do however believe that there are enough solutions to make it work.

Lets put things in perspective. Ableton rewrote the MIDI engine. It can now be tested in beta 2. Pretty soon you'll see some results of how tight it is or isn't.
Ableton also stated that they'll be releasing Audio/MIDI fact sheets. This means you'll be able to see how tight they believe it is. And you'll be able to contest it if that isn't the case.

The things I just mentioned are pretty damn essential if we want hair-fine accuracy of recording/playback of our CC's.
And the function is more then just turning a knob and recording it...
We need a Midi-Thinning control, a dry/wet for individual automation envelopes and probably some more things.

The way i see it, you need 2 CC's to control and record 1.
One CC is the one being recorded to your clip. The other one allows you to control the parameter manually without affecting automation.
On the other hand, you would want this controller to be recorded in arrangement view. because the controller allows you to control the intensity of the applied clip automation.

Thats just one solution. Other people have posted their theories.
Its just a matter of having the most stable version of Live as possible.
A lot of energy has gone into fixing loads of bugs. Read Live 6.0.10..... Live 6 has been in beta pretty much all year. If Live 7 actually improves stability (and it is stable as far as i can tell), Ableton wont need a year to make more essential updates to Live.

you know, thinking about your 2 Cc solution i got an idea: morph between session and arrangement, for hands-on control, or pre-recorded automation. or something in between.

imagine a dry/wet for session/arrangement.

set it to 50/50 and your precorded automation would blend with your current live manipulation.

Silicon/Silicium · Post by **Silicon/Silicium** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:04 pm

set it to 50/50 and your precorded automation would blend with your current live manipulation.

in fact, that's exactly what it currently does: pattern automation is modulated by current live manipulation (or prerecorded arrangement automation). The point is not the blend by itself, but a way to record manually the pttern automation.

Ableton 7 it's a joke !!!

Re: Ableton 7 it's a joke !!!