Seriously, are you guys smoking crack?

RobertX · Post by **RobertX** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:42 am

I sure was excited to see Live 7 is in the pipeline... that is, until I got to the upgrade page. My head spun so fast I injured my neck.

You have lost your collective minds. Did you guys have Microsoft come up with this upgrade scheme? Honestly - Steve Balmer would be proud.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:58 am

do you have anything more specific?

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:16 am

I think he's talking about the pricing scheme.

I too am not a big fan of huge rundowns of pricing according to different options, but it kind of makes sense considering lots of the new stuff in Live 7 are optional add ons.

nuperspective · Post by **nuperspective** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:27 am

why yes

this season i have mostly been smoking crack. heroin is soooo last week.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:40 am

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:59 am

forge wrote:do you have anything more specific?

NEW ABLETON INSTRUMENTS

* Tension: EUR 129/USD 159
* Electric: EUR 129/USD 159
* Analog: EUR 129/USD 159
* Essential Instrument Collection 2: EUR 99/USD 119 (for owners of
EIC 1, a free upgrade to EIC 2 is included with the boxed upgrades
to Ableton Live 7 and Ableton Suite)
* Session Drums: EUR 149/USD 179
* Drum Machines: EUR 69/USD 79
* Orchestral Strings: EUR 209/USD 249
* Orchestral Brass: EUR 209/USD 249
* Orchestral Woodwinds: EUR 209/USD 249
* Orchestral Percussion: EUR 169/USD 199
* Orchestral Bundle (Orchestral Strings + Brass + Woodwinds +
Percussion): EUR 669/USD 799

...I see that all the threads begging ableton to throw in operator + sampler into live for free came a bit too late.

BigBuddha · Post by **BigBuddha** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:28 am

For me Live 7 with all its non-implemented requested basic (!) features other DAWs got for years is a main Reason to switch to pricey Apple Logic as fast as I can. As said in many posts before most of the so-called new features are sold seperately from Live 7 or should I say Live 6.5? Its a shame that Ableton will sell Live 7 and not give it to registered users as a free Live 6.5 upgrade. To be frankly since the announcement of Live 7 I ask myself a lot y I bought Operator & Sampler with my update to Live 6. Lookt at Logic 8 with a fair price a suppergood convolution reverb (Space Designer), Ultrabeat and the new Delay Designer. For 400 bugs I will get 47 GB content!!

Does anybody know if Logic 8 got bezier Curves, nice swing-possibilities and crossfades?

Bye bye Ableton.

Heinz Graaf · Post by **Heinz Graaf** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:37 am

wow yeah indeed... Thats a huge price!

And then to think they lied so long saying your mix was muddy because basically you sucked because there was nothing wrong with Live.

My thought:
FLUSH! Ableton down the toilet!

pat the dog · Post by **pat the dog** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:41 am

BigBuddha wrote:Does anybody know if Logic 8 got bezier Curves, nice swing-possibilities and crossfades?

yes logic has all three of those. but nothing quite like warping or session view.

i guess the balance tips depending on what you want to do.

Heinz Graaf · Post by **Heinz Graaf** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:45 am

pat the dog wrote:
BigBuddha wrote:Does anybody know if Logic 8 got bezier Curves, nice swing-possibilities and crossfades?
yes logic has all three of those. but nothing quite like warping or session view.

i guess the balance tips depending on what you want to do.

Theres always Melodyne, which is a far superior timestretcher. Melodyne can act as a rewire slave

dr.wackler · Post by **dr.wackler** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:49 am

sqook wrote:NEW ABLETON INSTRUMENTS

* Tension: EUR 129/USD 159
* Electric: EUR 129/USD 159
* Analog: EUR 129/USD 159
* Essential Instrument Collection 2: EUR 99/USD 119 (for owners of
EIC 1, a free upgrade to EIC 2 is included with the boxed upgrades
to Ableton Live 7 and Ableton Suite)
* Session Drums: EUR 149/USD 179
* Drum Machines: EUR 69/USD 79
* Orchestral Strings: EUR 209/USD 249
* Orchestral Brass: EUR 209/USD 249
* Orchestral Woodwinds: EUR 209/USD 249
* Orchestral Percussion: EUR 169/USD 199
* Orchestral Bundle (Orchestral Strings + Brass + Woodwinds +
Percussion): EUR 669/USD 799

I think the prices for the single instruments are quite reasonable, and especially the application only upgrade price of EUR 99 is really ok - I'd pay that for Drum Racks and the slicing feature alone!

And then again, when you buy the bundle, each instrument get's down to about EUR 75 in average, which is also very good value for money.

The thing that irritates me is that when you own Sampler and Operator already, they don't subtract those average EUR 75 each from the bundle (i.e. EUR 150 altogether), but credit you a mere EUR 20 each!!

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:50 am

Heinz Graaf wrote: My thought:
FLUSH! Ableton down the toilet!

see you then heinz! have a nice life

(unless of course you feel the need to hang around the forum of a product you dont want just to dump shit on it - but you're not that sad are you?

)

Mlange2000 · Post by **Mlange2000** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:56 am

BigBuddha wrote:For me Live 7 with all its non-implemented requested basic (!) features other DAWs got for years is a main Reason to switch to pricey Apple Logic as fast as I can. As said in many posts before most of the so-called new features are sold seperately from Live 7 or should I say Live 6.5? Its a shame that Ableton will sell Live 7 and not give it to registered users as a free Live 6.5 upgrade. To be frankly since the announcement of Live 7 I ask myself a lot y I bought Operator & Sampler with my update to Live 6. Lookt at Logic 8 with a fair price a suppergood convolution reverb (Space Designer), Ultrabeat and the new Delay Designer. For 400 bugs I will get 47 GB content!!

Does anybody know if Logic 8 got bezier Curves, nice swing-possibilities and crossfades?

Bye bye Ableton.

You can not compare Logic 8´s pricing with Live. Apple sells Logic way to cheap, because they want people like you to buy there program. They can get their profit from selling their hardware, but this is a bit unfair. Usual softwarecompanies can not afford to sell their products under break even point.
If you look at Logic 8 there are not as half as much good new features as there are in Live 7. Mostly they did some graphic changes and added some little improvements to the plugins. The even copied some functions from Live i.e. zooming with mouse.
I find it ok, that I don´t have to buy Classic instruments or old drummachines stuff that I already have bought over the years with Battery, and other sample libraries.

I own Logic 8 and the upgrade was 299 Euros.
I understand, that I can buy the Live Suite upgrade (download) also for 299 Euros.

This is fair to me. And I am supporting a company, that is really inventing things instead of copying features and improving the worflow of their product...

Heinz Graaf · Post by **Heinz Graaf** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:59 am

forge wrote:
Heinz Graaf wrote: My thought:
FLUSH! Ableton down the toilet!
see you then heinz! have a nice life

(unless of course you feel the need to hang around the forum of a product you dont want just to dump shit on it - but you're not that sad are you? )

i have paid for version 6 so Im allowed to post crap

I am not sad but seriously a few months ago we were having heavy discussions about the sound quality in Ableton. Henke and the rest fo you hardcore users said I was trippin but now some time later a new Ableton arrives and guess what... THEY HAVE UPDATED THE AUDIO ENGINE. I so am laughing my ass off right now. The other guy, Nebulue (?) said his muddy mixes in Ableton Live 6, when opened in Live 7, sound better. Now you cant possibly think that I can accept this and just be cool with it...?

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:09 am

Heinz Graaf wrote:
forge wrote:
Heinz Graaf wrote: My thought:
FLUSH! Ableton down the toilet!
see you then heinz! have a nice life

(unless of course you feel the need to hang around the forum of a product you dont want just to dump shit on it - but you're not that sad are you? )
i have paid for version 6 so Im allowed to post crap

I am not sad but seriously a few months ago we were having heavy discussions about the sound quality in Ableton. Henke and the rest fo you hardcore users said I was trippin but now some time later a new Ableton arrives and guess what... THEY HAVE UPDATED THE AUDIO ENGINE. I so am laughing my ass off right now. The other guy, Nebulue (?) said his muddy mixes in Ableton Live 6, when opened in Live 7, sound better. Now you cant possibly think that I can accept this and just be cool with it...?

no those debates were about Live compared to other DAWs - not 64bit DAWS

it's a different issue