Dear Users,
in the new beta version ( Live 606b1 ) we changed the behaviour of the MIDI feedback for clips lauched in session view. Let me first explain the problem and later tell you how you can solve it in this beta.
The Problem:
When a clip is launched via MIDI it sends back messages that can be used e.g. for to drive a status LED on a hardware controler. A note with velocity of 126 indicates that a clip is launched, a note with velocity 127 indicates it starts playing and veloctiy 0 means it stopped. So far so cool. But unfortunately if you launch a second clip in the same track while the first one is playing the order of execusion in Live leads to a very confusing output: first the new clip is launched, and afterwards the old clip is stopped, means the last MIDI info you get is the Note Off from the old clip. This behaviour makes it very hard to derive usefull information for display purposes.
One workaround (which I used for the MonodeckII control) is to delay all Note On messages a bit so they certainly will arrive after the Note Off. This is relatively easy to do in MAX but tricky elsewise.
The Solution
We decided to change this behaviour for the current beta. We now send the Note Off first and then the other feedback data. But this change is very tricky, it might break things on places which we do not expect. Therefore we decided to make it optional for this beta. You need to turn it on explicitely if you want it.
You need to create a textfile called Options.txt and place it in the .../Preferences/Ableton/Live606b1 folder. This file needs to contain this line of text:
-_SwitchOrderOfSuccessiveClipStartStop
If there is allready an Options.txt file simply add this line.
As we said before, we are not 100% sure if this is working under all circumstances correctly. This mean we would appriciate if a lot of you try it out. Even if you are not using the feedback yourself. It should in no case cause other oddities, like changing how follow actions work or looping. If you experience problems try removing the options entry to figure out if this is the cause.
Thanx for the support.
Robert Henke
Ableton
Live 6.0.6b1: MIDI Feedback of fired clips in session
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Robert Henke
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:38 am
- Location: Berlin
LOl. thanks for the info robert, i start hard test now.
I back in few hours for send the rimary impresions.
Robert, some words, about midi feedback improvement, please?
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55875
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55974
Improve MIDI loop feedback, its easy, and its not critical.
And if you or other ableton thinks, its critical, add optional like this.
This optional way using Options.txt its great way , people who need can start using now, and ableton can wait long time before enable permanently on some version without any risk : )
After long time without hear any complaint can be added finally : )
Back sap with some info.
I back in few hours for send the rimary impresions.
Robert, some words, about midi feedback improvement, please?
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55875
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55974
Improve MIDI loop feedback, its easy, and its not critical.
And if you or other ableton thinks, its critical, add optional like this.
This optional way using Options.txt its great way , people who need can start using now, and ableton can wait long time before enable permanently on some version without any risk : )
After long time without hear any complaint can be added finally : )
Back sap with some info.
Well i making something wrong or this not work 
I use mac, and use spotligh for find folder preferences, no idea where its located, spotligh showme folder preferences, i open, and inside yi see folder ableton, inside ableton 6.03 and folder of new beta, i open fodler of new beta, and create Options.txt and put inside:
-_SwitchOrderOfSuccessiveClipStartStop
Then open ableton, nothing change, midi continue arrival in wrong order.
Some sugestion?
I making something wrong?
I use mac, and use spotligh for find folder preferences, no idea where its located, spotligh showme folder preferences, i open, and inside yi see folder ableton, inside ableton 6.03 and folder of new beta, i open fodler of new beta, and create Options.txt and put inside:
-_SwitchOrderOfSuccessiveClipStartStop
Then open ableton, nothing change, midi continue arrival in wrong order.
Some sugestion?
I making something wrong?
-
wavejumper
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:26 pm
- Contact:
using a bcr2000 and this upgrade
can anyone using a bcr2000 please confirm this:
place 2 midi clips on the same track, trigger mode is toggle, each being triggered by a different button on the bcr set to toggle on too, so that when you fire one it lights up and when you click again to stop the same one it dips.
with this new thing enabled, when you try to launch one of the clips while the other is running, does the light on the other clip go out as soon as the clip stops?
i hope its clear, this might make me upgrade to 6 if it works the way I think it does...
thank you
place 2 midi clips on the same track, trigger mode is toggle, each being triggered by a different button on the bcr set to toggle on too, so that when you fire one it lights up and when you click again to stop the same one it dips.
with this new thing enabled, when you try to launch one of the clips while the other is running, does the light on the other clip go out as soon as the clip stops?
i hope its clear, this might make me upgrade to 6 if it works the way I think it does...
thank you
This not its fix for people using clips mapped to diferrent butons... i think..
Based on my experince, i think the answer to your question can be ...yes
But cant confirm....
This fix bug for clips mapped on this way:
(fic teh wrong midi feedback)
Picture show the way its mapped play cplis, on this way , you can play any higlighted clip, on using single button per track.
Well i continue testing, and or i make something wrong with file Options.txt or this its not fixed yet : (
Ths fix, make the midi feedback (used for show status of clip on track work)
I think i makeing something wrong, Robert heneke know a lot of this bug, so if he say its fixed with options.txt........ should be................but i cant make this work yet !!
Continue testing.
Based on my experince, i think the answer to your question can be ...yes
But cant confirm....
This fix bug for clips mapped on this way:
(fic teh wrong midi feedback)
Picture show the way its mapped play cplis, on this way , you can play any higlighted clip, on using single button per track.
Well i continue testing, and or i make something wrong with file Options.txt or this its not fixed yet : (
Ths fix, make the midi feedback (used for show status of clip on track work)
I think i makeing something wrong, Robert heneke know a lot of this bug, so if he say its fixed with options.txt........ should be................but i cant make this work yet !!
Continue testing.
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wavejumper
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:26 pm
- Contact:
Like i say...if Robert Say its fixed, its fixed.......... : )
I just mistake and write:
-_SwitchOrderOfSuccessiveClipStarStop
wront TYPO ! i write Star............ i forgot the t jijiji
After start testing ............this fix the bug reported
For now, i not find anytrouble using this.
Some update about midi feedback of loop?
: )
I just mistake and write:
-_SwitchOrderOfSuccessiveClipStarStop
wront TYPO ! i write Star............ i forgot the t jijiji
After start testing ............this fix the bug reported
For now, i not find anytrouble using this.
Some update about midi feedback of loop?
: )
Works fine here too.
As long as you don't send the feedback out of the same port as the track input.
I built a little feedback patch in max and got the following result.
Vel. 126 = sent out on the moment i trigger a clip
Vel. 127 = sent out on the moment a clips start playing
Vel. 1 = sent out each time a loop repeats
Vel. 0 = sent out once a clip stops. This is the case for individual clips and clips that are stopped by triggering another clip.
So if you have a clip playing and trigger another clip, you get the following 3 velocity's in the respective order:
- 126 when you click on a new clip while another clip is playing
- 127 once the clip starts playing
- Followed by 0 to indicate that the previous clip has stopped
Would it be possible to send out another note (specified in Options.txt), where the velocity indicates the scene number of the clip that is currently playing? 128 scenes should get this little experiment started.
If more scenes are needed. Adding another note to the Options.txt would provide another 128 scenes.
We don't need this for the tracks, because it's already in place.
I can see a few applications with this feature. For example, it could be used to trigger videos in another application.
As long as you don't send the feedback out of the same port as the track input.
I built a little feedback patch in max and got the following result.
Vel. 126 = sent out on the moment i trigger a clip
Vel. 127 = sent out on the moment a clips start playing
Vel. 1 = sent out each time a loop repeats
Vel. 0 = sent out once a clip stops. This is the case for individual clips and clips that are stopped by triggering another clip.
So if you have a clip playing and trigger another clip, you get the following 3 velocity's in the respective order:
- 126 when you click on a new clip while another clip is playing
- 127 once the clip starts playing
- Followed by 0 to indicate that the previous clip has stopped
Would it be possible to send out another note (specified in Options.txt), where the velocity indicates the scene number of the clip that is currently playing? 128 scenes should get this little experiment started.
If more scenes are needed. Adding another note to the Options.txt would provide another 128 scenes.
We don't need this for the tracks, because it's already in place.
I can see a few applications with this feature. For example, it could be used to trigger videos in another application.
Nice idea, but that can complicate usual use.
I hoppe ableton can fianlly under thsi beta stage improve the loop please, its really needed:
clip stop= 0
clip start play = 126
clip playing = 127
* loop activated but not playing the loop region = 1
* loop playing the loop region = 2
loop disabled and track continue playing....ableton back to 127 (at this moment no back to 127, adn continue in status 1)
*NOTE:
Values are just sugestion, this 2 values can be any values.
Please : ) !!!
I hoppe ableton can fianlly under thsi beta stage improve the loop please, its really needed:
clip stop= 0
clip start play = 126
clip playing = 127
* loop activated but not playing the loop region = 1
* loop playing the loop region = 2
loop disabled and track continue playing....ableton back to 127 (at this moment no back to 127, adn continue in status 1)
*NOTE:
Values are just sugestion, this 2 values can be any values.
Please : ) !!!
hello,
it's a pity this doesn't happen with audio clips, then i could derive clip/loop legnth. oh well.
not sure if this is something i'm doing, but if i set up two dummy midi clips on the same midi track, set follow actions so that after each 4 repeats of the loop the previous/last midi clip is played (i guess this is arbitrary), the first midi clip sends out the correct data, while the second clip sends out nothing. i know the second clip is sending out midi data as there is a note i put in the second clip to test. i'm receiving midi data via iac_bus1, over cg=hannel 1, i'm sending the midi data over iac bus 2, channel 1, and capturing the midi data with a simple NoteOnResponder in SuperCollider3, such as:
(
c = NoteOnResponder({ |src,chan,note,vel|
[src,chan,note,vel].postln;
},
nil, // any source
nil, // any channel
nil, // any note
nil // any vel
)
)
am i setting it up wrong?? do i need to post this in the beta forum?
cheers,,
it's a pity this doesn't happen with audio clips, then i could derive clip/loop legnth. oh well.
not sure if this is something i'm doing, but if i set up two dummy midi clips on the same midi track, set follow actions so that after each 4 repeats of the loop the previous/last midi clip is played (i guess this is arbitrary), the first midi clip sends out the correct data, while the second clip sends out nothing. i know the second clip is sending out midi data as there is a note i put in the second clip to test. i'm receiving midi data via iac_bus1, over cg=hannel 1, i'm sending the midi data over iac bus 2, channel 1, and capturing the midi data with a simple NoteOnResponder in SuperCollider3, such as:
(
c = NoteOnResponder({ |src,chan,note,vel|
[src,chan,note,vel].postln;
},
nil, // any source
nil, // any channel
nil, // any note
nil // any vel
)
)
am i setting it up wrong?? do i need to post this in the beta forum?
cheers,,
About the fix of bug "MIDI Feedback of fired clips in session"
THANKYOU ABLETON STAFF!!! fix work exelent !! : ) no troubles detected, anyway i contnue testing this, but now after high ours of intensive usage cans I CAN SAY TAHNKYOU !!!
THANKYOU ABLETON STAFF!!! fix work exelent !! : ) no troubles detected, anyway i contnue testing this, but now after high ours of intensive usage cans I CAN SAY TAHNKYOU !!!
Last edited by Dj-Grobe on Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.