Mac Optimizations--- Lets Make A Deal With Ableton/ Respect

[::mic-minimal::]

I've been researching alot of sites mac and general, this is what the consensus is but first let me say that I'm no expert on the subject or a techhead, what I am is very strong in the area of common sense and it seems that alot of gripes regarding optimizations might benefit from my observations.

After Ableton Optimizes Live for the Mac, the Mac will still not perform up to the level of the PCs. think about this for a minute. A 'pentium 3' pc will outperform the top of the line G4 Powerbook, Ableton knows this, most of them are powerbook users and I've even seen them comment about this on this forum, now think of them as having business responsibilities, and this next part is especialy important. Ableton knows by all of our post that
without a doubt after they optimize Live for the mac !!!! AND IT'S STILL NOT AS FAST AS THE PC !!!! that we're not going to show them any respect or grattitude, why? because if Live could only play 4/6/8 tracks on
a PC then nobody would be complaining. Well after optimisation the powerbooks will be able to do more but it won't come close to what the Pc is capable of with Live, maybe after mac optimization the top of the line powerbook will be able to do what a P3 pc laptop can do, but it won't come
close to the top of the line pc laptops. why am I saying all of this.... because I want us (all Live users) to see what it is exactly that we are asking ableton for.
Now after optimization for the mac, the Pc crowd will demand optimization just on the basis of principle, even though their laptops will already be faster than an optimized Mac.

In closing my suggestion is that mac users show ableton in their post that even though they know that the optimised macs will still not compete with the pcs that they won't give them alot of grief for trying to upgrade the performance, alot of these stupid post are people making comments that don't have anything to do with music, like " you pc users bla blah blah wait
til mac optimization blahblah macs will kick pc butt blah blah" and these people know less about what they are talking about than I admittedly do. ALTIVEC WILL NOT LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD.
now I know ableton will do the optimizations cause they said they will, and I'm going to get a powerbook after that but I don't expect it to perform equal to a pc laptop and niether should you, if ableton knew that they still wouldn't get the grief after Altivec optimization they would probably do it sooner.

[Guest]

word to your mother, right on target

[neoverse]

Look, I am not directing this at you personally. The very fact that you had to make that statement shows the idiocy of the whole argument. I have a dual G4 1ghz mac running osx. for audio work its fricken Killer. So, what, a pc may get 128 tracks and we mac users only get 110? I mean, what's the real beef here? anyway you cut it both platforms have reached blazing speeds. Who cares if one is a little faster than the other? you can complete a very complex album on a desktop system on either platform without walking into a major recording studio. That's amazing.

Sorry, but this whole argument has gotten to be stupid and irrelevant.

[::mic-minimal:]

you missed my whole point, first of all I'm not making an pc vs. mac arguement, secondly my point is that if Ableton get the feeling that people
will actually appreciate the upgrade, it might happen sooner than later. Regardless of what your desktop system does, there are alot of people here who would like the optimization and if Ableton thought that the majority of those request were worthwhile I'm sure they would have done the upgrade already, but when you see all the crap posted about give me the upgrade cause it's not fair that that other platform can perform as such
then what do you think it looks like to Ableton?....those same people will be saying the same thing after the upgrade.

[Alex Reynolds]

...first let me say that I'm no expert on the subject or a techhead...

So you're no self-described "techhead" but you feel comfortable stating this as fact:

After Ableton Optimizes Live for the Mac, the Mac will still not perform up to the level of the PCs. think about this for a minute. A 'pentium 3' pc will outperform the top of the line G4 Powerbook

Other media (audio and video) applications that use Altivec show performance gains that make Apple PPC platform from 1.5 to 2 times faster per MHz.

If you dispute this, feel free to search for and read my previous posts on the subject of Altivec on this forum, most of which make reference to large numbers of published, public coding examples and performance tests.

Apple users are asking for, generally speaking, performance and quality improvements where the following issues are concerned:

-- clip numbers
-- effects
-- sound quality

If Windows users want to ask for performance increases, go ahead. Honestly, it doesn't sound like you need them.

Nonetheless, a lot of users seem to express a desire for performance improvements under the Mac platform.

There is clearly a lot of room for improvement. We're not talking 104 vs 110 clips but rather a much larger disparity that needs dramatic repair.

So:

We're at the third major release of Live and still no significant change in performance.

We are paying the same price for Live as Windows users for a fifth of the productivity.

We do not generally crack software like Windows users (our community pays for its software to a larger degree than the Windows user community -- search Google for Live and other audio software cracks if you disagree).

If our community foots a larger chunk of the bill for development, it should therefore be fair to ask for these much-needed fixes.

If you're a Windows user, ask for those improvements you feel are necessary. Leave paying Mac customers alone. Enjoy your purchase.

Respectfully,
Alex

[::mic-minimal:]

Alex did you even read anything else in my post other than" the fact that windows users would demand optimization also" I'm asking for Mac optimization.

[nyquist]

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2018

[scotty]

That link is all very nice, but so should we be happy with less? I guess mac users should be thankful that their options are more limited, and that their creativity is that much more liberated? Nice idea, but not much help. I do agree with the sentiment of the link provided but I don't see it as a justification for mac people to stop requesting optimization.

I may have missed it in all the fragmented threads, but is their an official Ableton stance on altivec optimization?

-scotty

[muser]

::mic-minimal:,
-I've wanted to say as much but felt that long, detailed posts don't usually translate well into a forum setting.
---------

Alex,
-I believe the research you're referring to shows the POTENTIAL improvement that altivec-optimization can produce. I'm not a programmer, but I'm assuming that Ableton won't be able to estimate the exact level of improvement until they've commited at least a fair amount of time and money to the development/optimization process.

Ableton's a small company. If they feel Mac users aren't going to appreciate (read: pay for an upgrade) an optimization update unless it at least levels the playing field with PC laptops, then they will have to be very wary of committing the resources to such a project.

Remember, many people think of altivec like magic, despite many corrections to the contrary posted on this forum. You, of all people, know that it's not, so please help us dispel the myth, which would remove an excuse for Ableton to stall on optimization.

[hmmm]

alex wrote: "our community pays for its software to a larger degree than the Windows user community"

the rich people also paid most for the wars @ our nice earthball ....
.....so it seems quiet ok that they have the right to judge over life and death

[::mic-minimal:]

don't take Alex too far the wrong way, I know he's just letting off a little steam but it's important that ableton knows that any improvements what so ever would be appreciated on the mac platform, irregardless of whether they equal, surpass, or fall short of equaling performance on the windows platform.

[Guest]

don't take Alex too far the wrong way, I know he's just letting off a little steam but it's important that ableton knows that any improvements what so ever would be appreciated on the mac platform, irregardless of whether they equal, surpass, or fall short of equaling performance on the windows platform.

yes.

[michael@uchicago.edu]

im embarassed to have replaced a pc laptop with this mac, paid full price, paid for ableton live, and have pathetic performance compared to my buddies with cheaper pc's and pirated ableton live.

yes, several of my friends perform live with ableton, getting paid at various points in time.

im a mac user, i paid, and i have a pathetic system. they run 10 reverbs, i run 2.

now ableton, what the hell. i am actually angry, because to many degrees i have a useless program that i cant port my ableton live sets from my pc to my mac because you cant program a mac.

at a point where you take my money, i have no sympathy. it is your living, so you techie enthusiasts, quit trying to be understand and ask what you need... AS CUSTOMERS, not friends.

[noisetonepause]

I personally couldn't care less if people were running Live on Gameboys and getting thousands of simultaneous audio tracks. I'm not into comparing Y-chromosome size with PC-users. The Mac is my platform of choice for a lot of reasons I feel no need to specify or argue for. That is the way it is. Ableton Live is my preferred audio sequencer, I doubt I'll need to tell you why. SO, what I has to ask myself is, does this combination work? Does it give me the performance I need? The answer is, it sort of does. Now, I know that if Ableton Live used some of the money I payed them for this software to devolope it further, they could change that into a resounding YES! (well, actually not, as I have a G3, but you get the idea ), so I ask them to.

Is this so difficult to understand or accept?

-Paws

[raapie]

Live isn't optimised for Pentium either, so think about it. I don't know about the G5 but the older ones are just much slower than a PC.

So Live isn't optimised for PC or Mac. I am having no problems and can understand that for Ableton programming against instructionsets is very hard are might change too quickly when Intel changes something about the protocol.

If Ableton optimises it it should be for both platforms Mac and PC I think.