Workflow: Anyone start in Arrange, then to Session?

[jamester]

This is something I've been trying to work out for some time now; I know it seems like a "backwards" workflow, but is it possible? Live is obviously great for making ideas in Session and recording them into Arrange, but can it work well the other way - making clips in Arrange and then dragging them into cells in Session?

I know it can be done, but the problem is how each are tied to the other. I've always wished Live could decouple the two views in a way that made it more like two mini-programs running at the same time. So for instance I could make some crazy audio loops in Arrange, edit them down and consolidate, then drag them into a clip slot in Session. The closest I've come is to actually render the clips out, then drag them back into Live on new tracks/slots, and then mute the originals. Is this the only way? Also for drums, I like to be able to jam freely (along with a bass loop or something), and then go back and isolate/touch up any cool parts, and make them into their own loops. Session isn't good for this since you have to pre-define your clip length. So again, how can I do this in Arrange and then turn it into a clip for Session?

Hope this makes sense. I'm only an occasional Live user, so there may very well be tips and tricks I'm unaware of for accomplishing this type of workflow...

[rtopia]

So for instance I could make some crazy audio loops in Arrange, edit them down and consolidate, then drag them into a clip slot in Session. The closest I've come is to actually render the clips out, then drag them back into Live on new tracks/slots, and then mute the originals.
Is this the only way?

No...

Also for drums, I like to be able to jam freely (along with a bass loop or something), and then go back and isolate/touch up any cool parts, and make them into their own loops. Session isn't good for this since you have to pre-define your clip length. So again, how can I do this in Arrange and then turn it into a clip for Session?

Edit the recording in ARRANGE (cursor and CTRL+E / CMD+E)
Drag that "clip" into the FILE BROWSER on the left
You can use that clip in SESSION on any project your in (current or future)

This is close to what you're already doing except you're not going through the RENDER step.

I recommend creating a separate folder (to make them easy to find).

B'LIEVE HON : )

[r]

[Android Bishop]

This is something I've been trying to work out for some time now; I know it seems like a "backwards" workflow, but is it possible? Live is obviously great for making ideas in Session and recording them into Arrange, but can it work well the other way - making clips in Arrange and then dragging them into cells in Session?

yes you can do this. its not a bad idea either, I've been toying around with it since it seems more effective for me to do songs in arrangement mode and go back to create clips for live improv once I have the song structure down

Also for drums, I like to be able to jam freely (along with a bass loop or something), and then go back and isolate/touch up any cool parts, and make them into their own loops. Session isn't good for this since you have to pre-define your clip length.

No you dont, you can just hit record on an empy clip slot and record for as long as you like.

[UncleAge]

Also for drums, I like to be able to jam freely (along with a bass loop or something), and then go back and isolate/touch up any cool parts, and make them into their own loops. Session isn't good for this since you have to pre-define your clip length.

No you dont, you can just hit record on an empy clip slot and record for as long as you like.

Yup, that's exactly how I do it.

[Tone Deft]

I've kinda been doing this lately. I made a 3 minute track that's half finished so I jam along with it in arrange view then bring it into session view to chop out the good parts which then get put back into session view. I guess I'm using arrange view so I can actually see all the other parts and tell where I am in the jam.

other than that I ALWAYS start with session view. I'm probably 95% session view but I suck at finishing songs so naturally I don't spend much time in arrange view.

[3dot...]

This is something I've been trying to work out for some time now; I know it seems like a "backwards" workflow, but is it possible? Live is obviously great for making ideas in Session and recording them into Arrange, but can it work well the other way - making clips in Arrange and then dragging them into cells in Session?

yes you can do this. its not a bad idea either, I've been toying around with it since it seems more effective for me to do songs in arrangement mode and go back to create clips for live improv once I have the song structure down

Also for drums, I like to be able to jam freely (along with a bass loop or something), and then go back and isolate/touch up any cool parts, and make them into their own loops. Session isn't good for this since you have to pre-define your clip length.

No you dont, you can just hit record on an empy clip slot and record for as long as you like.

+1
you don't pre-define length... length is defined when you hit stop (...or play) on the clip...
there's actually no real advantage in recording to arrange...
EXCEPT seeing all the waveforms in the clips that you're recording at the same time...

[Nick the Zombie]

I spend most of my time in Arrange and only occasionally move over to Session to play with the odd loop here and there.

[Nick the Zombie]

[double post, whoops]

[McQ714]

I've kinda been doing this lately. I made a 3 minute track that's half finished so I jam along with it in arrange view then bring it into session view to chop out the good parts which then get put back into session view. I guess I'm using arrange view so I can actually see all the other parts and tell where I am in the jam.

other than that I ALWAYS start with session view. I'm probably 95% session view but I suck at finishing songs so naturally I don't spend much time in arrange view.

i like the song... kinda reminds me of Tosca's song "Honey". now all you need is some scantily-clad women dancing and pouring _________ (insert your favorite liquid here) on each other and licking it off.

[Tone Deft]

wow, thanks for the compliment. now I just have to add stuff to it without completely screwing it up. the hard part for me is that I can't WRITE songs, I've come up with loads of sounds jamming along to it, I just don't have the vision... yet. practice. thanks, it feels great to put something out there.

[Nick the Zombie]

the hard part for me is that I can't WRITE songs, I've come up with loads of sounds jamming along to it, I just don't have the vision... yet.

I feel your pain on this, it's a long road moving from building a song part by part to actually having a fleshed out idea in your mind before firing up the computer. I'm definitely in the "jamming long" camp as well. I've only recently (last couple years) started to give serious thought to boning up on songwriting, developing a healthy respect for pop structure and traditional theory. In many ways it's been more challenging than learning sound design. I'll check out your song-in-progress in a little bit when I get the chance.

- Nick

[Homebelly]

the hard part for me is that I can't WRITE songs, I've come up with loads of sounds jamming along to it, I just don't have the vision... yet.

I feel your pain on this, it's a long road moving from building a song part by part to actually having a fleshed out idea in your mind before firing up the computer. I'm definitely in the "jamming long" camp as well. I've only recently (last couple years) started to give serious thought to boning up on songwriting, developing a healthy respect for pop structure and traditional theory. In many ways it's been more challenging than learning sound design. I'll check out your song-in-progress in a little bit when I get the chance.

- Nick

I am sooo in this camp.
I think my sound design chops are reasonably tight, by my actual "Song writing/arranging" chops are none existent.
I'm currently limiting my self to one session that i am determined to finish and round out as an actual "song" as apposed to the
Lineal journey type arrangements i usually cough out.

To adress the original post.
I used to do a lot of sound design and loop building in Logic, then export all of those snippets and ideas to my hard drive, then load them up into Live session view. Session view is great for building ideas and laying out sections. You can copy/duplicate clips and create follow actions, Or, you can copy/duplicate entire scenes until you have a rough jamable idea. I love this approach.
When i have the basic idea i record the jam into arrange then micro edit it in there.
I used to go back to logic for this as i used to be of the opinion that logic was far superior at this point in the building process and had plugins better suited for this approach.
I'm not sure if my mind is changing in this regard, or if my ears are more accepting of lives "Sound"
but recently i have been staying in live for all my sound design and arranging needs flipping back and forth between both views with little regard.
The session i am working on now started in arrange with a drum loop i cut up and moved around, consolidated and took to session, built up some synth layers, recorded the whole mess back into arrange. Micro edited it,, sent it back into session... and so on,,, and so on,, and so on,,,

I LOVE LIVE!!!!

[Tone Deft]

the hard part for me is that I can't WRITE songs, I've come up with loads of sounds jamming along to it, I just don't have the vision... yet.

I feel your pain on this, it's a long road moving from building a song part by part to actually having a fleshed out idea in your mind before firing up the computer. I'm definitely in the "jamming long" camp as well. I've only recently (last couple years) started to give serious thought to boning up on songwriting, developing a healthy respect for pop structure and traditional theory. In many ways it's been more challenging than learning sound design. I'll check out your song-in-progress in a little bit when I get the chance.

- Nick

I am sooo in this camp.
I think my sound design chops are reasonably tight, by my actual "Song writing/arranging" chops are none existent.
I'm currently limiting my self to one session that i am determined to finish and round out as an actual "song" as apposed to the
Lineal journey type arrangements i usually cough out.

actually I was thinking about that song of yours I heard, there was very little structure to it, it just flowed from one part to the next.

I'm kinda hoping the APC will help with this, the ability to remove myself from mouse clicking and add/remove parts as it feels right. I think this is where the DJs have a HUGE advantage, they've got tons of practice bringing in different elements and combining them. they also start out playing with other peoples' structures which I imagine is a great way to start to get the feel, then they get better with more elaborate structures.

[Homebelly]

they also start out playing with other peoples' structures which I imagine is a great way to start to get the feel, then they get better with more elaborate structures.

As a guitar player i have "Learned" very few of other people songs.
My roots are well buried in the blues, especially the rough Texas and Mississippi country and back woods blues where no song was ever played the same way twice and would often skip changes or throw in abstract dissonant chords.
This was always a problem when i was in and out of bands, i would get the rough structure down, then fly off on tangents and so on imagining i was RL Burnside, Lighning Hopkins, Mance Lipscomb or early Muddy and Wolf.
Now i'm sitting at home hammering this stuff out i am realizing how important it is to learn other peoples songs and music, there is a lot to gain from listening to and absorbing the names i mentioned, but then you go listen to The EELS or Sparklehorse and you realize how boxed in you are and difficult that shit is to get right.

[Sage]

I'm kinda hoping the APC will help with this, the ability to remove myself from mouse clicking and add/remove parts as it feels right. I think this is where the DJs have a HUGE advantage, they've got tons of practice bringing in different elements and combining them. they also start out playing with other peoples' structures which I imagine is a great way to start to get the feel, then they get better with more elaborate structures.

DJ'ing isn't about structure though, just riding what works at that point in time. Working with other people is a great way to learn structure, an epic 2 minute intro very quickly becomes 4 bars when you have to play it to others