Best way to make softsynths sound warmer

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
forge
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Post by forge » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:36 am

NorthernMonkey wrote:forge, just stumbled onto your site, 'Making TEN' is a good tune, has it made it onto the club scene?
thanks mate

that was the b-side for 'Making me feel' (which I think is also on there) which was signed to low pressings (Clive from Peace division and Rocky from XPress2's label) - it was going to be my 3rd release with them but sadly they went under and it never made it out

I never really shopped it around after then and kind of got caught up in family life/moving to OZ etc....

trash
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Post by trash » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:40 am

i have lost faith in musicians....
wtf - everyone seems to be making the same bland shit....
that track is fucking cock.
http://www.nebulae.com/live/trollkiller.html

xp / osx / gentoo / backtrack3 / yourmother / reakter 1.2 / ears

forge
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Post by forge » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:42 am

X wrote:


NorthernMonkey
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Post by NorthernMonkey » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:50 am

forge wrote:
NorthernMonkey wrote:forge, just stumbled onto your site, 'Making TEN' is a good tune, has it made it onto the club scene?
thanks mate

that was the b-side for 'Making me feel' (which I think is also on there) which was signed to low pressings (Clive from Peace division and Rocky from XPress2's label) - it was going to be my 3rd release with them but sadly they went under and it never made it out

I never really shopped it around after then and kind of got caught up in family life/moving to OZ etc....
Making TEN is a good tune, would sound excellent in decent club, you should push that one.
..?

Moody
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Post by Moody » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:54 am

Congratualtions on the find!
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

amcnally336
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Post by amcnally336 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:38 pm

Nebulae,
Glad you decided to go the hardware way! It always puzzles me that people will throw more money around looking for software that sounds, basically, more analogue. I mean, that's really what you were asking wasn't it? Terms like warmth. organic, etc. are all really trying to capture the essence of the experience of analog gear. True, it is hard to put in words, but almost everyone knows it when they hear it, so why don't we just be open and honest about it. I love both digital AND analog gear, but it is just painfully obvious what the differences are between the two. I have guitar rig 3 and Amplitube Jimi Hendrix...I have a very nice (fireface) Hi-Z input and compressor to feed these programs a very good signal, but NEVER in a bazillion years could I not INSTANTLY tell the difference between that and my guitar going through my lovely Fulltone Germanium pedal and Moog phaser into a very sweet tube amp. It's just not even close. I really have to seriously disagree with Robert if what he is trying to say is that you can recreate that sound in software. I have tried just about every software distortion unit around and I really like some of them (Izotope trash in particular), but they are NOT the kind of sound that comes out of my $150 germanium fuzzz. They simply can't touch that kind of sound! And even if you could...why bother? Why try to recreate or capture something that you could just HAVE if you started out with the proper tool. The fact that Robert is able to qualify certain aspects of this sound, and even the fact that he says he is sure 100% that software can capture this shows that he IS aware of the difference...even if he does not just come out and say it. What is with the attachment to doing it all"in the box"???I know I will probably catch flak for this, but I just wanted to point this out. Yes, you can get warmth and such, but are you honestly trying to tell me that software is on equal footing with analog gear in regards to this spectrum or quality of sound? I have Zebra, minimoog, and imposcar, and I really wanted to like them for their "analog" sound, but they do not even come CLOSE to my Andromeda A6 or Prophet 08 or MS-20...not even close!! I like these software synths for other reasons, but for warm, organic goodness...analog ALL the way! I love the Waves Rennaissance collection, but it simply does not sound the same as an LA2A! They are good for their own reasons. If I am looking for that (warm, organic) particular sound in my music, it doesn't make sense to use software and then agonize over how I am going to warm up the sound when I can just start with that sound in the first place. That is the beauty of the technological world we live in! We have acccess to ALL of it. The whole analog vs digital debate is just kind of pointless to me. That is like arguing whether an acoustic guitar is better than an electric guitar. They both have their own unique sound, and they are obviously each better equipped to capture a certain essence or sound. Use whichever tool is most appropriate. If you are looking for the sound of an acoustic guitar would you record an electric and then use all sorts of plug-ins and processing to make it sound more like an acoustic, or would you just use an acoustic? Why anyone would limit themselves to ONLY digital gear or ONLY analog gear eludes me...but, of course, I want it all!

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:43 pm

^ yeah, I understand that sentiment, but I do think that software comes pretty close these days...also, the convenience of doing sound design in my laptop at a cafe beats having to lug around a Virus any day. But I get what you're saying.

Grappadura
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Post by Grappadura » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:10 pm

What a great read! Just read the whole thread through in one go and loved it!

Liked Roberts statement a lot and would love to hear one of his secrets!

scientist
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Post by scientist » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:57 pm

nebulae wrote:I bought a second Presonus TubePre
have you opened these up yet to see what tubes are inside? the best $20-40 you can spend is on getting some new mullards, eh's, or sovteks to shove inside. world of difference.

another thing to keep in mind is the concept of aggregation. putting a plug on one track and expecting a magical difference shouldn't be the motivation. putting e.g. a saturator with subtle settings on ALL tracks is much more productive. the changes to one track are hardly noticeable, but the AGGREGATE CHANGE when all the tracks are mixed together is significant. doing this with hardware is problematic, as the noise inherent in cheaper gear will build up track by track.

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:13 pm

scientist wrote:
nebulae wrote:I bought a second Presonus TubePre
have you opened these up yet to see what tubes are inside? the best $20-40 you can spend is on getting some new mullards, eh's, or sovteks to shove inside. world of difference.

another thing to keep in mind is the concept of aggregation. putting a plug on one track and expecting a magical difference shouldn't be the motivation. putting e.g. a saturator with subtle settings on ALL tracks is much more productive. the changes to one track are hardly noticeable, but the AGGREGATE CHANGE when all the tracks are mixed together is significant. doing this with hardware is problematic, as the noise inherent in cheaper gear will build up track by track.
Interesting suggestions - I'll have a look at the saturator track-by-track approach...

as for replacing the tubes, is that easy to do?

Crash
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Post by Crash » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:15 pm

The best and the worst thing about analog is "varriance". Love it and hate it! :twisted:

It's hard to put varriance into digital to make it sound more lively and it's hard to get rid of varriance in analog to make it sound controlled.
Last edited by Crash on Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:15 pm

Here's a guide I found on replacing the tubes:

http://www.wikirecording.org/PreSonus_T ... he_TubePRE

scientist
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Post by scientist » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:22 pm

nebulae wrote:Here's a guide I found on replacing the tubes:

http://www.wikirecording.org/PreSonus_T ... he_TubePRE
that'll do ya. the male end is just wires sticking out of glass, so you have to be a little careful but no big problem really. as with all electrical equipment, unplug it and don't touch capacitors. i'm assuming 12ax7's inside, any decent music store should have them, or check here for the bling:
http://www.tubedepot.com/12ax7.html
although $300 worth of tubes in a presonus is probably a lost cause.

tricil
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Post by tricil » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:25 pm

put them through guitar amps and mic 'em.


seriously.
MacBook Pro T7600 / OS X 10.5.7 / Ableton Suite 8.0.2 / Peak Pro XT 6.1.1 / ReMOTE 37SL

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:32 pm

scientist wrote:
nebulae wrote:Here's a guide I found on replacing the tubes:

http://www.wikirecording.org/PreSonus_T ... he_TubePRE
that'll do ya. the male end is just wires sticking out of glass, so you have to be a little careful but no big problem really. as with all electrical equipment, unplug it and don't touch capacitors. i'm assuming 12ax7's inside, any decent music store should have them, or check here for the bling:
http://www.tubedepot.com/12ax7.html
although $300 worth of tubes in a presonus is probably a lost cause.
Yeah, I was just looking at that site...is there a review of the different types of 12Ax7? Which of the three brands you recommended is best?

Also, should I opt for the low noise option for $4 more?

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