Live 4.0.1 is buggy & crashes

the8bitdeity · Post by **the8bitdeity** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:24 pm

Has the plug-in manufacturer also been contacted? Again, I will state it might not be Ableton and very well could be the manufacturer. Throughout the Beta period I would contact both Ableton and plug-in manufacturers with issues. This would allow me to determine the burden of the issue. If you've only talked to 1/2 of the issue this is poor indeed.

Verne Andru · Post by **Verne Andru** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:31 pm

Wanting to see a bug that crashes Live fixed ASAP is, IMHO, the epitome of community support. To not say anything would be irresponsible. And while this bug may not be affecting you currently, it potentially might at some point in the future - that is, unless it gets fixed before you run into it in which case you will still think Verne is a jerk because you will be oblivious to the fact that it was Verne being a bit of a jerk that got the bug fixed before you tripped over it.

Verne Andru · Post by **Verne Andru** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:36 pm

the8bitdeity wrote:Has the plug-in manufacturer also been contacted? Again, I will state it might not be Ableton and very well could be the manufacturer. Throughout the Beta period I would contact both Ableton and plug-in manufacturers with issues. This would allow me to determine the burden of the issue. If you've only talked to 1/2 of the issue this is poor indeed.

If you read through this thread [shudder] you will see a post by Bernt [Ableton guy] acknowledging this is a Live problem. I see no need bothering Roland/Edirol with this issue - especially considering it has worked flawlessly on Cubase SX and Logic for years.

the8bitdeity · Post by **the8bitdeity** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:50 pm

I didn't see a post by anyone named Bernt, but I did see one by some guy named Bernd. Maybe if you learned to type their names they'd want to fix your bug, no?

jrathkopf · Post by **jrathkopf** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:59 pm

no one forced you to buy the buggy program......you should demo software before you buy it....and if that is the case, then what is the problem? if it doesnt work well on your system, you do not have to buy it for your system.
i agree you should make aware of bugs, what not, but to go as far as to start accusing ableton and screamingg is stupid and makes you come off not only as a jerk, but an idiot.

Verne Andru · Post by **Verne Andru** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:15 pm

Ok, so now I'm a jerk, an idiot and a complete moron for reporting a bug and not getting the spelling of Bernd's name correct.

Since I appear to have become the forum's favourite whipping boy for not succumbing to 'groupthink', anybody else want to add to the list? Let’s have at it folks – give it your best shot!

Rahlo · Post by **Rahlo** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:53 pm

the8bitdeity wrote:I didn't see a post by anyone named Bernt, but I did see one by some guy named Bernd. Maybe if you learned to type their names they'd want to fix your bug, no?

wow.

jrathkopf · Post by **jrathkopf** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:56 pm

no...but it is idiotic in my opinion to think that the reason they would address your bug is because you made a huge stink about it in a public forum... that may be the case with asshole companies, but from my experience, whenever i have had issues, and i privately emailed one of the ableton crew, i got a response usually within a day, if not two.
and if they did not get back to you fast enough, i doubt it is because you were too nice, but because they have been super busy.
but if you want , you can turn yourself into a martyr

jah · Post by **jah** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:00 pm

Verne Andru wrote:Ok, so now I'm a jerk, an idiot and a complete moron for reporting a bug and not getting the spelling of Bernd's name correct.

Since I appear to have become the forum's favourite whipping boy for not succumbing to 'groupthink', anybody else want to add to the list? Let’s have at it folks – give it your best shot!

Hey, I dont think you're a jerk! I think people react in such way 'cause you said that Live 4 was unusable. It's usable for most of us!

Anyway, always when I see people write about bugs in VST's or VSTi's in Live 4 or other hosts I recall this comment about the VST specification I read by Ross Bencina (author of AudioMulch), and since you're a
programmer I thought I'd share it with you:

http://www.musicdsp.org/phpWiki/index.p ... sToLoveVst

I haven't made any own programming with this SDK but implementing a VST host seems to be a really difficult task because of flaws in the VST specification.

I think ableton has done a great job implementing VSTi's in Live 4 so far. I expected far more bugs than this.

Buff Gherkin · Post by **Buff Gherkin** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:14 pm

this thread is funny. keep going.....

Verne Andru · Post by **Verne Andru** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:15 pm

jrathkopf wrote: but if you want , you can turn yourself into a martyr

I would prefer this thread just die out, but since Ableton won'd kill it and you guy's are taking such pleasure in keeping it alive by taking shots at me, all I can do is turn the other cheek. And if that makes me a martyr, then so be it - we can add that to the list of jerk, idiot, moron and self-serving. I don't mind - they're only works on a screen.

Besides - I don't mind the added gong

.

Thanks for the post jah. I know there are problems with the VST spec - which is why it's so important to test, test and test again. And when you're finished, test some more.

Buff Gherkin · Post by **Buff Gherkin** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:30 pm

Verne Andru wrote:
jrathkopf wrote: but if you want , you can turn yourself into a martyr
I would prefer this thread just die out, but since Ableton won'd kill it and you guy's are taking such pleasure in keeping it alive by taking shots at me, all I can do is turn the other cheek. And if that makes me a martyr, then so be it - we can add that to the list of jerk, idiot, moron and self-serving. I don't mind - they're only works on a screen. Besides - I don't mind the added gong .

Thanks for the post jah. I know there are problems with the VST spec - which is why it's so important to test, test and test again. And when you're finished, test some more.

that wasn't very funny

rasputin · Post by **rasputin** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:42 pm

You know, I thought people were being too hard on Andru until I went back and re read the original post and responses. He did indeed over react, and basically trashed the entire release because of one bug that happened to be important to him although irrelevant to 99% of other users
out there. He went to far as to recommend NO ONE buy it (see quoted message below.) And this is Ableton's biggest fan?

Sorry bud, doesn't wash--try decaf next time.

The funny thing is, everyone KNEW there would be problems trying to support VSTis in Live. I personally didn't need it, and used Bidule when I absolutely had to. It's nice to know Live 4 will support them with more or less stability, but I agree with the poster who said it would be great to have a central repository of VSTis that are known to either work or fail with Live 4.

r.

Verne Andru wrote:I really hate to rain on Ableton's parade, but the "release" of Live is not ready for prime-time.

I have reported [on at least 3 separate occasions] since the first beta that when you try to display the properties dialog of some very common VSTi's - something you absolutely need to do to use the VSTi's features - Live starts behaving erratically and crashes forcing you to reboot your computer. This bug has to do with an erratic pointer [where there’s one there’s usually several] that undermines Live, the ReWire and Audio subsystems on your computer.

I’ve been using Live since version 1 on almost a daily basis. I absolutely love it and have been pressing for a long time for the inclusion of MIDI support. I’ve been anxiously awaiting this release and am excited about the added features and functions it provides.

But making a product release announcement at Summer NAMM [happening right now] is absolutely no excuse to releasing software that you know is buggy. This has caused Steinberg a huge amount of customer ill will and is a business model I was glad Ableton didn’t follow. Guess times have changed.

I’m hugely disappointed and don’t recommend anyone buy Live 4.0.1 until the known bugs have been fixed.

some · Post by **some** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:11 pm

Hey Verne, your bug report is taken over by the Ableton's, so be patient

. I think, they will work again up to their limits to fix it, but it takes time.
In my experience - in many cases the most time gets "lost" by waiting for responses of the vst/vsti coders of the bug-claiming-plugin. I don't think that Abletons had have released Live4 knowingly as a buggy software, the main things were fixed as I could see. Don't forget - they were enforced by a very big and colorful community that could not wait anymore and which was satisfied about Live's stability (beta) using their specific plugins and devices. It was also about a strict time schedule as I can imagine, and in my opinion they have done a very impressive work. Don't seen this anytime before, to be so near by your customers, like Ableton does.

That your bugreport wasn't noticed in the time you expected and after your postings is sad for you cos you're maybe a diligent bug-reporter (i haven't read the whole bug-forum yet). But that could happen and in this round it was your turn

In my opinion (which is more or less some worth, ok, lets say for my plugins and devices;) Live is a very stable application. I know, what you're mean, when you say "this is a common prob of the software industry, to release too early". But there is a difference, which you shouldn't forget. Some companies are so far away from their customers (no names), that you are very fast disappointed after posting your bug reports, without getting any or just an automatic reply. I'm using besides of Live many other Soundtools and writing in a lot of forums, but I'm very disappointet about getting no response from the coders in the most cases, so I can understand you. Well the community helps and tries to solve or shell your problem (what's very important, not only for you but also for the coders!), but in most cases I'm very happy, when a coder or someone from the team i've wrote answers me and gives me the feeling to be taken serious.

In your case actually the CTO (whoo;) has took up your prob and is maintainig it, isn't it a bit of a gratification for you? *big smile* (yah, I know, I should stop now=
So don't be angry about Abletons

/eof
a pleased customer
(sorry for my lousy english)
I love you

loophead · Post by **loophead** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:25 pm

Buff Gherkin wrote:
Verne Andru wrote:
jrathkopf wrote: but if you want , you can turn yourself into a martyr
I would prefer this thread just die out, but since Ableton won'd kill it and you guy's are taking such pleasure in keeping it alive by taking shots at me, all I can do is turn the other cheek. And if that makes me a martyr, then so be it - we can add that to the list of jerk, idiot, moron and self-serving. I don't mind - they're only works on a screen. Besides - I don't mind the added gong .

Thanks for the post jah. I know there are problems with the VST spec - which is why it's so important to test, test and test again. And when you're finished, test some more.
that wasn't very funny

Well 'Buff' THAT had me in stitches !!

Live 4.0.1 is buggy & crashes

Re: Live 4.0.1 is buggy & crashes