LOOPERS PARADISE!!!!

socco riffredi · Post by **socco riffredi** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:33 am

yes, the buttons for a specific sample. the work as stop signal for a playing sample if you switch to a next pattern,so if you delete them , the sample from the above pattern keeps playing.
anyway, i guess there isn't a perfect solution for this..

Per Boysen · Post by **Per Boysen** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:12 pm

Ok, now I understand. And yes, I agree it's not a very intuitive trick

Maybe the best way is to get some midi foot controller with as many buttons as possible and mapp both "clip select" and the appropriate "track record" to each button?

I've been thinking about that. If I do this with my FCB1010 I can work very fast with ten clips on five tracks (two on each track). Then I can call up another FCB pre-set for the the next two rows of clips on the same five tracks.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:01 pm

It all doesn't "quite" work for the kind of live looping we are talking about. Too many "nearly there" situations for my patience personally. The simple additional clip functions of being able to overdub and delete would help this all fom feeling like a game of chess and having to be lateral for little live usage gain.

There are no ways of escape from some situations, which although can give some interesting results there are some holes that it would be nice to have a way to dig out of in a live situation using controllers instead of sat in from of a laptop.

The most useful method I have come up with to use Live as a looping tool feeding played phrases into/through it is via the above slot button removal method across a number of channels and triggering via scenes. Always having one track live for monitoring through effects, the other tracks go via sends into Elottronix XL to "hold" the loops and layer them there.

Per Boysen · Post by **Per Boysen** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:45 pm

Anonymous wrote:The most useful method I have come up with to use Live as a looping tool feeding played phrases into/through it is via the above slot button removal method across a number of channels and triggering via scenes. Always having one track live for monitoring through effects, the other tracks go via sends into Elottronix XL to "hold" the loops and layer them there.

That's interesting! I also use other devices for overdubbing and layering. Mainly a Gibson Echoplex and sometimes also an Electrix Repeater.

Last month I was asked by a Swedish studio magazine to write a column on using Live for "live looping" (i.e. no pre recorded sounds, everything recorded on the stage and then looped and mangled in Live). I had to start out the article by stating that Live can not handle the most important function for live looping; "overdubbing/layering into the same loop". Then there is no "undo" function and no way to control sample/clip parameters from a midi foot controller (needing hands to play instruments). Today Live seems to be best suited for live mixing of pre-recorded loops, but with some minor updates it could really become "Loopers Paradise", to use for live looping.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:33 pm

Yes. I am familiar with the EDP and find this sooooooo irritating. I have a rack-based PC setup with 16 I/O using a Mixtreme going straight into a digital mixer for hooking instruments and monitoring/feeding PA... I have latency of 3ms... I have some gorgeous onbaord plugs to take the load off of the PC itself for tasks like compression/ampsimulation (Drawmer and Acuma)... I have what must be GOD knows how much more processing power than the cpu used in the EDP...

BUT...

Can I use it to do even the BASIC tasks of what an EDP does in a way that is reasonable to control live on stage? Can I set it up using anything but plugins to try bridging implmentation misgivings without it all feeling like I have become a tap-dancer? Can I have it so that I can do all of this remotely without crapping myself that "this" part of the jigsaw doesn't quie work so I have to allow for "that" possible scenario?? Can I do it without sitting on my arse triggering premade loops in front of a screen and it all work like clockwork?? CAN I F&^%$&£**K!!!!!! Arrrghhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I want DELETE and OVERDUB and I want them NOW damnit!!!! I NEED the option to NOT have a track ALWAYS monitor when in record mode!!! That's all!!!

Good grief! Working with moody bassists and drummers is NOTHING to the endless jigsaw making this has become to achieve something you would think is SO simple. Is the notion of making music live in front of an audience with NO prepared material, being able to improvise and watch things evolve yourself (never mind the audience), such an abstarct idea these days?

*explode*

Per Boysen · Post by **Per Boysen** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:11 pm

Anonymous wrote:Is the notion of making music live in front of an audience with NO prepared material, being able to improvise and watch things evolve yourself (never mind the audience), such an abstarct idea these days?

*explode*

Sadly enough such activities seem to be too abstract

My guess is that this is a negative effect from the pressure felt by music instrument manufacturers and stores to sell more products to more customers. Since the number of skilled musicians and experienced artists, that know how to use quality instruments, does not increase that rapidly the marketing teams have to look for new customers among all those not-yet-so-experienced artists. This gives that any new instrument has to stand up to a certain "show off standard" by simple button pressing. They simply make more money producing "canned pre fab sound modules" an masse than quality instruments with the depth to provide a musician to develop originality. It suck, really. I can't say how happy I am that I got hold of an EDP before Gibson dropped the product and that I finally managed to put up the money for a Repeater before Electrix went belly up. And I'm hoping for Live to continue to develop in the right direction - a software performing instrument.

Many years ago I wrote to a bunch of software developers, sent them feature lists and asked them to create a software live looping instrument, similar to the EDP in praxis. The guys at PSP estimated the market to be too small to make it possible, business wise. But I'm not so sure about that. Just look at how popular Live has become! And check out the great activity on the mailing list at http://www.loopers-delight.com/. Yes, there are some working stuff for PD and Max/MSP, I've been told, but if Live could pick up real-time recording/looping it would be a much more attractive alternative. A first step could be to make all those cool sample/clip parameters addressable from an external midi controller. What do you say Ableton?

Next we could have "overdub/layer recording into a clip", maybe with an "undo" to step back the layering history. And then we could have the possibility to save and recall our personal "pre-sets" for clip envelopes. This would make Live a kick-ass looper! I would happily sell all my hardware for that

kimyo · Post by **kimyo** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:17 pm

i'm having an issue where i capture a loop in session view while other loops are playing. i haven't been able to determine the cause - sometime the loop plays immediately as i end the capture, sometimes the volume is greyed out. if this occurs, i can switch the output channel away and back. this plays the loop.

is anyone else having this issue?

aside from this one problem i'm ready to ditch my lexicon jamman and use live for live performance.

kim

Per Boysen · Post by **Per Boysen** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:07 pm

kimyo wrote: i'm ready to ditch my lexicon jamman and use live for live performance.

That's nice! I can not take that plunge yet because I like to be able to overdub layers, sound-on-sound, into loops. Ableton Live can not yet do that, but I'm hoping for this to be implemented a.s.a.p. There should have to be a new command like "set loop point and continue recording in overdub mode".

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:11 pm

Per Boysen wrote: I can not take that plunge yet because I like to be able to overdub layers, sound-on-sound, into loops. Ableton Live can not yet do that, but I'm hoping for this to be implemented a.s.a.p. There should have to be a new command like "set loop point and continue recording in overdub mode".

Per,

isn't that exact same thing possible using multiple tracks? i.e. track 1-8 with all the same input but different midi keys assigned? Or am I misinterpreting what you're looking for?
It all seems to work quite conveniently here when I overdub guitar, even with a keyboard as a triggering device, since I'm mainly into layering bars.

Best,

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:42 pm

Format, no it's not. Think moer along the lines of a delay where you are feeding a sound in a loop recording new layers over itself. Overdubbing with feedback control is especially useful as you can layer new material into a loop as previous material is fading from "view". A very creative tool in a live situation. Having multiple tracks/sends/etc to achieve the same, which you can't in any really useable fashion, is more akin to playing a game of chess in a live situation feeding in live material.

Sorry for jumping on a question addressed to Per but the lack of this simple feature is driving me nuts! It's THIIIIS close to being absolutely perfect for live looping, in the sense of plaing live material in through the inputs and building up live performances with them assisted by all the other wonderful Live features that are more set for pre-set material in the main.

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:51 pm

I see what you mean now. Well the only way to do that would be by MIDI expression pedal controlling the faders, wouldn't it, and you want that to happen by feedback control. Hmmmm. I don't even have that on my BOSS gigadelay and never missed it (well, I can use the knobs to do that but it's very unsatisfactory.) but it is definitely a great idea.

Per Boysen · Post by **Per Boysen** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:42 pm

That was a good description, Guest

It's called "feedback control" since you are actually feeding audio back into the loop, which is recording over and over. In Ableton Live you have to stop recording to close a loop and set the loop point.

I would say ovedub layering is very similar to a tape delay. If you feed its audio back louder the loop will increase in volume for each round until it starts distorting. But normally you set the feedback level somewher between 70 and 95 percent. Feedback 0 percent will only give one repeat.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:54 pm

I still have to use my Electrix Repeater for live loops. It works great as you can sync it to Live through midi and both ways ! Live is not ready for live looping so far, you guys are right.
BTW, check out eBay from time to time, Repeaters are not - that - hard to find…

LOOPERS PARADISE!!!!

audio greyed out after loop capture

Re: audio greyed out after loop capture

Re: audio greyed out after loop capture