Push 3 is absolutely annoying

[xit7]

Hi there,

sorry to rant a little. But I expected Push 3 to be quite a bit more solid than this. Do you have the same experience?

Let's start with the positive:
- Hardware feels good
- Great Workflow
- Inspiring

But at the price of the device, and a device which is -I believe- also for "professional use" I cannot believe the negatives (Standalone Mode):

SEQUENCER
Suddenly midi clips are not anymore represented in the sequencer. A drum pattern you programmed is not anymore properly lighting up the triggered sounds (bottom left of sequencer). At times the whole sequencer (top rows) are completely dark, not lighting up anymore. Clips are playing properly. but you cannot find out, which sample is playing and when. It's just a complete disaster (I tried selecting the clip again in session view, no change).

INSTRUMENTS/EFFECTS
For whatever reason parts of a device are not anymore displayed. In Simpler the filter section is black (no curve anymore shown). This also happened to some other devices which just stop showing anything.

CLIP EDITOR
Also out of no obvious reason, I cannot select any notes in the clip editor anymore. I scroll with the jog wheel but nothing gets selected. Going in and out of edit mode does not change anything. You just cannot select any note.
A usability issue which may just be a personal one: The order of selecting loop length and starting point of a clip to me is completely unintuitive.

SESSION VIEW
I cannot set the machine to not switch the channel on launch of a clip. E.g. I want to stay on the master channel, when I launch a clip from channel one. But Push is jumping always to the lane where I launched a clip. (There is a setting in Live but it seems to have no effect on Push).

I mean, these are really the basics of this machine which should be ROCK SOLID. I did expect some glitches on a new release, but nothing this basic. I have two Elektrons right next to me. Please, Ableton, take them as a positive example when it comes to software reliability, stability and efficiency. Thanks!

Actually I found those bugs so annoying, that I thought about selling it and going back to my Push 2.

I am on the latest version by the way (1.1.11)

Am I alone with these issues?

Have a nice day all of you!

[[jur]]

Yep, those are issues that probably every P3 user has already experienced.
The latest betas have improved things, but it's not release ready yet. You could join the beta program on Centercode though if you're up to.

[xit7]

Yep, those are issues that probably every P3 user has already experienced.
The latest betas have improved things, but it's not release ready yet. You could join the beta program on Centercode though if you're up to.

Well, glad to hear I am not alone. So at least there is hope that those issues get addressed. I think it is the third firmware release now after the hardware release and those problems still persist. I would definitely see them at the highest priority.

(I have an account at centercode. But I found that place rather weird and not very alive. Did not have the feeling I can contribute there. Also that interface I remember as being very much alpha.)

Thanks!

[[jur]]

Well, Centercode is the place to report bugs if you're running the beta firmware.
I reckon I'm also surprised there's not more discussion over there.

[wesslan_2049]

Well, Centercode is the place to report bugs if you're running the beta firmware.
I reckon I'm also surprised there's not more discussion over there.

I'm too surprised that we are unable to see the bug reports of other users in Centercode. That would probably stimulate more discussion.

Suggestions from other users are readable, however.

[[jur]]

I'm too surprised that we are unable to see the bug reports of other users in Centercode.

There's reasons for this and it's not going to change. But this doesn't prevent from discussing in the dedicated forum... which is the reason why it exists.

[Angstrom]

Well, Centercode is the place to report bugs if you're running the beta firmware.
I reckon I'm also surprised there's not more discussion over there.

Centercode interface doesn't really suggest discussion. The forum link there is very hidden

When new users log in they see two big buttons [View Bug Reports] [View Suggestions].
As mentioned above - only users with elevated permissions can see bug reports from all users. Bug reports seem to get flushed out every time Centercode decide they are having a redesign. My list of bug submissions is empty.

The forum link is hidden away in the Feedback dropdown at the top of the page on a different menu, a user has to know it's there and really want to find it.

[[jur]]

Hi Angstrom,
Regarding your empty submissions, that might just be because "solved/logged" ones are automatically hidden.
There's a button to show them though:




Nice point about the "hidden" link to the forum, I'll definitely forward this.
Well, seeing how the internet is used, globally, I think people definitely know how to look for places that are not directly right under your nose, but anyway, your point's still valid imo.

[Tarekith]

Ableton is frequently going back to the centercode developers to try and get fixes made for this, so if you see anymore things that are unintuitive less us know and we can pass it on.

[Angstrom]

Nice point about the "hidden" link to the forum, I'll definitely forward this.
Well, seeing how the internet is used, globally, I think people definitely know how to look for places that are not directly right under your nose, but anyway, your point's still valid imo.

Hahaha, oh my. Sadly, that's not the case.

My day job for about 20 years has been sitting between clients and end users and pointing out that even a big glowing flashing button titled (for example) "WEB SHOP" will often not lead to end users finding the web shop.
If a user knows an endpoint exists, and is conditioned to using the feature then yes they do tend to look for it, but even that can fail.

SOME users do successfully find the hidden items, but that subset is a self-selecting group which skews management decisions. It's selection bias.

If you are counting only the arrows which have hit the bullseye and you can see that 10 hit the bullseye you might say that the call to action is a success.
But where is the count for the failures? Was it 20 people who were unable to find the forum, or 20,000 ? Are these 10 successful visitors in the target representing a 50% success rate, or 0.05% success rate?

In the case of this UI, the large items actually dissuade users. We have a large page section Titled "Feedback" in the centre of the page. There are two massive buttons. View Bugs, View Suggestions, and the note: No content available.

At the top of the page is a menu item titled "Feedback".
We might not be surprised if a user anticipates that the menu titled "Feedback" is the link for the page titled "Feedback" which they are already on.
The user "knows" (incorrectly) that they can see all the content of the section titled "Feedback". They are unlikely to click "Feedback"

But that's just my guess. We would only really know how successful the UI is in guiding people to the forum by counting the people who

• Know there is a forum, and then look for the forum and successfully navigate to it.
• Know there is a forum, and then look for the forum and fail to navigate to it.
• do NOT know there is a forum, are informed by the UI that there is a forum, and then look for the forum and successfully navigate to it.
• do NOT know there is a forum, are NOT informed by the UI that there is a forum, and then look for the forum and FAIL navigate to it

-----

A side note on UI/UX : this disparity between users who know something exists, and those who do not know something exists is the key reason many UIs fail. Any spec/management team are too intimately familiar with the resources and taxonomies represented by the UI, and don't accurately model for those who use entirely different taxonomic models and strategies. If I think of a wooden front door as belonging in the "wood " department, and you think of it as "furniture" and someone else thinks of it as "Security" then we can see that a monolithic hierarchic taxonomic structure is doomed to fail.

* cough cough Live Browser * cough cough *

[[jur]]

Angstrom style!

[wesslan_2049]

Well, Centercode is the place to report bugs if you're running the beta firmware.
I reckon I'm also surprised there's not more discussion over there.

Centercode interface doesn't really suggest discussion. The forum link there is very hidden

When new users log in they see two big buttons [View Bug Reports] [View Suggestions].
As mentioned above - only users with elevated permissions can see bug reports from all users. Bug reports seem to get flushed out every time Centercode decide they are having a redesign. My list of bug submissions is empty.

The forum link is hidden away in the Feedback dropdown at the top of the page on a different menu, a user has to know it's there and really want to find it.

Point in case: I had no idea there was a forum even after clicking around in Centercode. Perhaps there is room for improvement?

[dcjams]

Nice point about the "hidden" link to the forum, I'll definitely forward this.
Well, seeing how the internet is used, globally, I think people definitely know how to look for places that are not directly right under your nose, but anyway, your point's still valid imo.

Hahaha, oh my. Sadly, that's not the case.

My day job for about 20 years has been sitting between clients and end users and pointing out that even a big glowing flashing button titled (for example) "WEB SHOP" will often not lead to end users finding the web shop.

[[jur]]

Cats are just too smart for us!

[xit7]

I can actually report that with latest beta (version 1.1.20b2) at least the problem with the drum pads not lighting up correctly seems resolved. Haven't checked the other issues or did not experience them so far in this version. Though clip editor still buggy (cannot edit some notes suddenly etc).

Phew.