Automating Native Instrument's, Tracktor in Ableton

[ncyancy]

I real like djing using Tracktor effects with my pioneer ddj, which i found a good tsi file that maps it.
I have even figured out how to route it into Ableton , to record my realtime djing, with my motu audio interface, and the help of sound flower. But Im wondering if there is a way that I can recall my djing efx moves in automation view in Ableton. I know I can set up ableton instruments or racks that could do some of the same features efx wise but if I want to use the tractor efx and fine tune it in Ableton automation, is there any way to route this or do this?

Thanks.

[mike_o]

you'll need to setup midi routing through the IAC bus driver whick is like soundflower for midi.

https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article ... uses-live/

there are third party downloadable options for windows.

[ncyancy]

Thanks for the response. Ill try it out.

[ncyancy]

So I tried what you said, I can get audio from tractor onto an ableton track, and can record the manipulation/ fx of tractor as an audio track, but I don't see any automation lines for all the movement i have done. If I think about how this would have to work. the midi in tracktor that corresponds to the effect nob would almost have to be routed to a midi track in ableton to record the automated movement, but then then on playback would have to go out of ableton into tractor through the fx and out of my sound card. Not quite sure how I would go about that. I may be missing something in the set up you suggested, mike_o that would accomplish this. any thoughts are helpful.

[mike_o]

you'll need to setup soundflower for audio input into ableton and the iac bus driver for midi, you will need to have your controller setup to send midi into traktor as well as ableton so that all your controller movements are recieved by traktor and recorded by ableton, just enable your controller in both preferences.

you then need to setup ableton to route midi back out on iac channel 2 and into traktor to be recieved and controll traktor.

it can take a little trial and error but its not that difficult.

[yur2die4]

I don't know how well this would work, but it is worth experimenting with:

First of all, try something really basic as a mapping in Traktor, instead of a complex already-made one. So create a new one that only does volume fades on 2 channels, and maybe 3 fx modulation parameters per channel (6 total, for a total of 8 control values).

These values should be dead simple.

Next, those values will Have to be controlled by an Ableton Live 'midi out'. So, check to see which outs you have available in Live (maybe a soundcard has midi Output).

Take that soundcard's physical midi cable and plug it into an Input that goes to Traktor's Input that is NOT selected in Live as an input. So, perhaps on that soundcard, you have Remote and Notes set to 'off' in Live for the input, but you'll choose the audio interface's midi input with your simple template that you made.

Finally, use your controller as Input into Live into the midi channel that goes Out to your audio interface. Record a midi clip and mess with your volumes. The midi clip should record midi cc# automation, the automation should send Out to the midi Out into your soundcard midi in...which then goes into Traktor and controls the parameters. If you were to play the clip, it should move those parameters on its own.

Edit: instead of using a soundcard midi I/O, I'm sure there are virtual routings also. Just have to make sure it ks 'controller to Live midi channel out to midi connection which goes to Traktor'

[muthafunka]

Are you mixing internally in Traktor or routing audio out to a mixer?

Reason I ask is you can just record internally in Traktor.

[ncyancy]

Thanks Mike_o. I will try that out tonight.


Also Thanks yur2die4. Your explanation makes sense. unfortunately, my audio interface has a midi output, but my ddi sr does not. So Ill probably have to look into your last suggestion about going virtual. I think its kind of similar to what Mike_o suggested.


muthafunka, Im recording into ableton. But what I am really wanting to do is to go back once the track is recorded and manipulate the efx to the T. Though Tracktor can record mixes, you can't go back and tweak what you have done. That is what Im hoping to do.

To me the routing of things is always the most complicated, but I appreciate all of your help and wisdom. I will let you know tomorrow how it goes.

Cheers.

[muthafunka]

Will you have to go back and load up the tracks in Traktor while you wait for your FrankenTraktorLive set to trigger them? I'd be inclined to keep it simple > record to wav in Traktor, if you want to redo a mix stop, leave a gap in the audio, go back and do the mix again then when you've finished just edit the wav. That'll help your mix skills and timing, execution etc way more than just drawing it too.

[ncyancy]

We'll I spent the past 2 days trying various routings. Nothing really seemed to work quite right. This may be due to my lack of really understanding about the IAC bussing-though i am not a newby to digital audio, the IAC/ midi routing virtually was something I hadn't really had to use. But I followed what Mike_o said and even read up on it, so the possible options, I tried.

On the audio side, Soundflower seems to work fine to bring the audio back into live, but as far as how to get a separate signal, of the audio unaffected by the midi controller moments and on a separate midi track that can be tweaked and automated to send back to tractor is still kind of hard for me to wrap my head around how its possible. I know its probably not possible in real time, you probably would record your signal and then have to switch over some other routings to hear the system playback through tracktor instead of tracktor through ableton. But again I struggled with how to make this happen.

Muthafunka, I really get your point, and I agree, some things are better to not make it so complicated. Your right that you get better at djing by doing the work mistakes and all in real time. But I thought if it was possible it might speed up the recording/editing process rather than hashing out take after take, of timing effects lengths to the T. To be able to have the power to edit/ automate after 1 take is a great and powerful time saver of digital recording. Sometimes those damn reverb tails and delay feedbacks get too out of reach and its hard to pull it back fast enough- I know. practice, practice.

In the end my best solution was: Hey, this is a ddj. 4 decks, 2 sides of turntables, why not map the one half to ableton to trigger clips or racks that i customize wilth dj effects, and then keep the other side mapped to tractor, and that way I can still get the cool effects i like, and improve on my djing skills. In the areas I am not as confident, I can go to the ableton effects, which would automatically be automated.

So what I came to is this is a good current compromise.

BUT... I have the advantage of living near an Ableton trainer, who I want to run my original idea by, and see if he can find a set up that works. Again, I realize that this isn't a live solution, just for perfecting a recording by having access to automation possibilities, with the other dj effects in tracktor. I still think there may be some way to do this. Muthafunka is probably right and it may be a little too convoluted but I figured its worth it to see what is the end possibility. I guess What you said Mike_o gave me hope that there is some way to do this, who knows, maybe it really isn't that hard. But for now after 2 days of not making much progress I have to look to the wisdom of others.

Thank you for all your tips and feedback!

Im hoping to meet with the trainer next week , and I will definitely let you guys know how it went and discuss certain routings if it works, and to what degree,

I appreciate all the feedback from everybody. Cheers.

[muthafunka]

Good on you for persisting but honestly after reading this and being pretty proficient with both apps, I'd put the time into functional skills like mastering your controller/mixing and learning to edit. You could set cue points in Traktor to give yourself time cues for fx moves. Also after 2 days spent trying to make it happen you could do worse than get NI's Traktor's 12 fx and just do the mix native in Live.