MusicRadar's Best DAW vote

[headquest]

I am not a sound engineer, I just want to make music without wasting time on unnecessary things. Surely the piano roll could be improved, but nevertheless is good enough for a fast workflow. Same goes for the automation. It just works.

Live might not be the right choice for serious 'producers' and sound engineers, but its the first choice for musicians.

The MIDI features are essential for musicians who use notation. There's no way to move MIDI effectively between Live and Sibelius. It sucks, but there it is ... for now.

[headquest]

As I've stated before in this thread, when voting again it displays the message: "Thank you, we have already counted your vote." on the top of the results. This makes me believe that you can only vote once. So no joke there, I'm afraid.

This is true, one or two posters aren't apparently reading what other people write

Anyway, if 9V wants to repeatedly cast votes that won't actually count, why spoil his fun?

[9V]

Vst support and Midi-Out are basic functions, essential for a DAW. The rest is not so important.

Personal needs. For the professional engineers at Abbey Road, the ability to comp vocals for example is a must.

I've always exported and imported midi files with Live, so i don't understand what you mean when referring to "no midi imp/exp".

No you haven't. It can't be done. MIDI clips can be imported and exported, but not MIDI files.

PROFESSIONAL COMPRESSION: i doubt engineers at Abbey Road compress vocals with Reason

MIDI FILES:

1) open live
2) drag and drop a midi file into a midi track
3) import tempo and time signature data into arrangement (yes/no)
4) arm the track with a vst or live instrument
5) edit the midi events
6) export midi clip

what's the difference? You mean "standard midifiles" for your phone? 01,00... those kind of things? In that case, i think it's better something like band in a box, karaoke, etc.

[9V]

As I've stated before in this thread, when voting again it displays the message: "Thank you, we have already counted your vote." on the top of the results. This makes me believe that you can only vote once. So no joke there, I'm afraid.

... just disable cookies...

[headquest]

PROFESSIONAL COMPRESSION: i doubt engineers at Abbey Road compress vocals with Reason

Comp editing (i.e. compiling an edit in comp lanes), not compression!!

MIDI FILES:

1) open live
2) drag and drop a midi file into a midi track

Nope, that's a CLIP, not a FILE.

3) import tempo and time signature data into arrangement (yes/no)

Can't be done.

6) export midi clip

But not a MIDI file...

what's the difference?

The difference is that to use Live in conjunction with industry standard notation software such as Sibelius, you need proper MIDI FILE support. And if "Band in a Box" offers that then yes, it would make a better choice than Live for professional musicians working with notation... which is a fairly shocking thought!!

[headquest]

... just disable cookies...

But WHY would anyone want to repeatedly vote 9V...? Seriously, WHY are you so bothered? Are you really so insecure about the validity of your own choices that you need to repeatedly vote for them to try and prove yourself right??

Sad.

[9V]

... just disable cookies...

But WHY would anyone want to repeatedly vote 9V...? Seriously, WHY are you so bothered? Are you really so insecure about the validity of your own choices that you need to repeatedly vote for them to try and prove yourself right??

Sad.

because every time i go there to see the results, i have to re-vote (since my mac has no cookies, i guess). And my vote raises the %

[9V]

The difference is that to use Live in conjunction with industry standard notation software such as Sibelius, you need proper MIDI FILE support. And if "Band in a Box" offers that then yes, it would make a better choice than Live for professional musicians working with notation... which is a fairly shocking thought!!

But this is obvious, since the name "LIVE" suggests you it is a musical software, for LIVE situations, above all. If you need to work with standard midifiles, Live is not the program for you. It's better Band in a Box for such aims...

[headquest]

because every time i go there to see the results, i have to re-vote (since my mac has no cookies, i guess).

... or you could select "view results" ...

But this is obvious, since the name "LIVE" suggests you it is a musical software, for LIVE situations, above all.

...so not primarily a studio DAW after all...

If you need to work widi standard midifiles, Live is not the program for you. It's better Band in a Box for such aims...

...or indeed Reason. I think you've possibly finally understood...

[9V]

...so not primarily a studio DAW after all...

No, i think Live is above all a musical instrument, that is why it was invented (the name suggests you the aim). For you it's better band in a box, or importing the midifiles directly into sibelius. Regarding Reason, unfortunatelly it has no vst support and no midi out, so IMO it's less complete than simple DAWs like garageband, mu-lab etc. as a DAW. If you want, you can always "rewire" it into another DAW, but it is silly and unnecessary (as a certain "Headquest" wrote on KVR forum... )

[headquest]

I do think it is usually "silly and unnecessary" to rewire Reason into Live, because both have reached a stage of completeness where the other isn't necessary. It's possible to finish projects using just Ableton, or using just Reason.

However, both are great in their own right, and suitable for different projects. I MUCH prefer Live in general... but for doing MIDI file work in conjunction with Sibelius, Reason is obviously the better choice for the reasons I've explained repeatedly now.

Each has it's place.... but yes, I think rewire is very rarely necessary any longer.

[9V]

I do think it is usually "silly and unnecessary" to rewire Reason into Live, because both have reached a stage of completeness where the other isn't necessary. It's possible to finish projects using just Ableton, or using just Reason.

I just wonder how can you consider "complete" a software without vst support, midi out and rewire master functions... Unless you consider "music" recording your synths and putting the result (sound) in a reason audio track... Or, worst, try to "emulate" vst synths with reason racks... or record them and create nnxt sampled patches...

Reason would be a perferct program, if it only had vst support (in a musical perspective). But if you are content with audio tracks (sound) rather than real music (midi tracks), then reason is enough for you.

And, by the way... sorry if i sound "rude", but in KVR you wrote "Perhaps for long-time users like us, it's Game Over. Reason 6 on its own isn't enough". In English "not enough" means "complete"?

[headquest]

I just wonder how can you consider "complete" a software without vst support, midi out and rewire master functions... Unless you consider "music" recording your synths and putting the result (sound) in a reason audio track... Or, worst, try to "emulate" vst synths with reason racks... or record them and create nnxt sampled patches...

Reason would be a perferct program, if it only had vst support (in a musical perspective). But if you are content with audio tracks (sound) rather than real music (midi tracks), then reason is enough for you.

And, by the way... sorry if i sound "rude", but in KVR you wrote "Perhaps for long-time users like us, it's Game Over. Reason 6 on its own isn't enough". In English "not enough" means "complete"?

"Complete" and "Enough" do indeed have quite different meaning in English, yes.

The fatal flaw in your thinking is your idea that "real music" = "MIDI files". You're simply wrong about that, but while you hold to that view you're unlikely to makes sense of any other answers I give you to the questions you are asking.

[9V]

"Complete" and "Enough" do indeed have quite different meaning in English, yes. The fatal flaw in your thinking is your idea that "real music" = "MIDI files". You're simply wrong about that, but while you hold to that view you're unlikely to makes sense of any other answers I give you to the questions you are asking.

Excuse me again, mr "coherence"... but just half an hour ago you claimed ableton live is not complete, because it has no MIDI file import/export, no precise automation, no event editing, no comp editing, no 64 bit version, no pitch correction, no CV routing, no analog mixer emulation, etc, etc... And now you write "ableton live and reason are both complete" (both have reached a stage of completeness ... It's possible to finish projects using just Ableton, or using just Reason) But maybe it is my english gap Then again: "live is not complete as a studio DAW"...

Regarding "real music" i have never said "MIDI files". I just think midi tracks in a sequencer are still "music" for a musician, because of the relationship with note score and musical parameters, while audio tracks are only sound in a musical perspective, because they are editable only with sound parameters (sound engineering). But, again, if you are certain audio tracks are "music" because of the fact they sound "like music", ok...

[headquest]

Excuse me again, mr coherence... but just half an hour ago you claimed ableton live is not complete, because it has no MIDI file import/export, no precise automation, no event editing, no comp editing, no 64 bit version, no pitch correction, no CV routing, no analog mixer emulation, etc, etc... And now you write "ableton live and reason are both complete" But maybe is my english gap

Actually you are just taking snippets of quotes out of context, altering the meaning, and in some cases putting words in my mouth that I never wrote. "A stage of completeness" is not the same as "complete", for example. My consistent position is that Ableton and Reason are both complete but different. They are "complete solutions" for "different situations" For some people one or other may also be "enough" but for some (including me) each has distinctive features that I need.

Regarding "completeness", I also need software for notation, for audio editing, for playing back DVDs, for creating spreadsheets, for doing word processing, for sending email, for surfing the net.... Ableton Live doesn't currently provide for all my needs, so is not "complete" in that sense. The word "complete" has different meanings in different contexts though...

I guess that either: 1) your English is too basic to understand the different shades of meaning words can have depending on their context and use;
or 2) you understand fine and are simply being - as others have suggested - a troll.

Given you poor understanding of many aspects of music in general, theory and technology, it's also possible that you are simply a sincere bloke who lacks musical education. I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt either way ... but I'm unable to give you any more of my time, as we are simply going round in circles here. There are no doubt forums somewhere in your native language and/or aimed at beginners (KVR have a beginners section if you are allowed back) etc where others may have more time to help answer your questions. Also I recommend reading some basic primers and perhaps enrolling in some music education courses that will help you get to grips with the basics, if you are genuinely so confused.

Peace, and farewell.