what do you *actually* expect in Live 8?

sublimelobc · Post by **sublimelobc** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:57 am

Nathaan-
I have to say....I honestly can't imagine live without session view, to me it's like a stripped down "anything else" if you just use session mode, but that's just my opinion.

Follow actions really are much more flexible/customizable for sequencing than arrangement view. It is WELL worth spending some time looking into it.

I have sequenced entire songs in arrangement view and in session view, arrangement view is what everybody has done for years, the innovation in live is in using session view as an additional tool in sequencing....a tool that is much better suited for using an arranged sequence in a live environment due to the ability to launch scene's and clips....which make improvisation possible from an arrangement.

Look at it this way, each clip is each element for a portion of a song....then make each "scene" become all the elements combined to form for example the intro, next scene down is your verse 1, and so on.....you have to understand how it works before deciding it's worthless to you. Give it a try!

I Just saw Homebelly's point about "follow actions on the master channel" , I have lusted for this myself!! You should be able to override all other clip follow actions with a master scene follow action that applied to all clips in the scene, that would be enough in version 8 to justify the upgrade for me! I can see where it doesn't always make sense for the whole scene to follow the master action if it existed, but if there was an override toggle?

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:59 am

nathannn wrote: i cant because its to time consuming.

If you select all of the clips in a session or scene you can assign them all the same follow actions in one shot.

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:13 am

sublimelobc wrote:
I Just saw Homebelly's point about "follow actions on the master channel" , I have lusted for this myself!! You should be able to override all other clip follow actions with a master scene follow action that applied to all clips in the scene, that would be enough in version 8 to justify the upgrade for me! I can see where it doesn't always make sense for the whole scene to follow the master action if it existed, but if there was an override toggle?

And you should also be given the option to have clips in a follow action in the session view ignore any follow actions from the master.
One advantage of this would mean you could set up scenes in the session view that include a group of follow actions in one track that are not affected by the launching of another scene. The big advantage here would be that if, like me, you set up a lot of clips to trigger randomly you don't end up having to scroll through a whole bunch of empty slots to get to the next group of clips in another scene..

I would also like to see a proper implementation of dummy clips.
This is part of the reasoning behind having clips on the returns and being able to route information to other tracks from them.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:29 am

Tone Deft wrote:things that are seemingly easy to code like x-fade curves

right click on the fader

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:35 am

Tone Deft wrote:
nathannn wrote:try sequencing a whole song not just a single tracks.
more disturbed.

how can't you?

AUTOMATION!

Tone Deft wrote:
forge wrote:umm....

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:39 am

Homebelly wrote:
sublimelobc wrote:
I Just saw Homebelly's point about "follow actions on the master channel" , I have lusted for this myself!! You should be able to override all other clip follow actions with a master scene follow action that applied to all clips in the scene, that would be enough in version 8 to justify the upgrade for me! I can see where it doesn't always make sense for the whole scene to follow the master action if it existed, but if there was an override toggle?
And you should also be given the option to have clips in a follow action in the session view ignore any follow actions from the master.
One advantage of this would mean you could set up scenes in the session view that include a group of follow actions in one track that are not affected by the launching of another scene. The big advantage here would be that if, like me, you set up a lot of clips to trigger randomly you don't end up having to scroll through a whole bunch of empty slots to get to the next group of clips in another scene..

I would also like to see a proper implementation of dummy clips.
This is part of the reasoning behind having clips on the returns and being able to route information to other tracks from them.

+1

and I agree with what you said on the last page

Johnisfaster wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:things that are seemingly easy to code like x-fade curves
right click on the fader

he means in arrange view

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:44 am

forge wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
nathannn wrote:try sequencing a whole song not just a single tracks.
more disturbed.

how can't you?
AUTOMATION!

true, at that point I go to arrange view.

Tone Deft wrote:
forge wrote:umm....

your sig.

attackmode · Post by **attackmode** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:46 am

I expect:
- No Vst-Parameter limit
- More Drumrack features
- A Vocoder
- Quadcore support
- More Video functions
- Better 64bit support
- Maybe dualscreen support

I don't expect
- Recording of automation in session view

I want
- Better accessibility of samples and presets in the browser (via MIDI). Hint: I don't want to touch my mouse!

The announcement will be in November. Due to bugs and instabilities the release will be next year (after the 20 EUR coupon is expired).

I'm pretty sure their main concern is not to repeat last years bugfest.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:54 am

Tone Deft wrote:
forge wrote:
Tone Deft wrote: more disturbed.

how can't you?
AUTOMATION!
true, at that point I go to arrange view.

yeah and that's the bit that sucks - I usually want to start automating straight away and once you get into arrange it's not easy to go back - anyway I've made the session automation point a billion times, RObert even made a post about it...it sounds like they will never solve it which to me is probably it's Achilles heel - that's where I was agreeing with your point about some established DAW coming up with session view - if they did it from the start WITH automation, where could Ableton go from there? I don't know, I kinda think on that one no matter how hard it is it should have been the highest priority of all - that one makes it feel broken to me

Robert's post has made it clear that it won't be happening soon and that bothers me a lot. I found a thread not long ago where we were alpha testing Live 6 and people were asking if it was in and we were saying no and there was an uproar - I even said somehing like "I'm sure it will be in Live 7" so to now be hearing that it even wont be in Live 8 is quite disheartening. Anyway, we'll see what Live 8 brings, I didn't intend for this thread to be a whining about problems thread, more a gauge of realistic expectations...

Tone Deft wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:

your sig.

what about it?

Bionecteur · Post by **Bionecteur** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:59 am

I am in fear that you are 100% right!

attackmode wrote:I expect:
- No Vst-Parameter limit
- More Drumrack features
- A Vocoder
- Quadcore support
- More Video functions
- Better 64bit support
- Maybe dualscreen support

I don't expect
- Recording of automation in session view

I want
- Better accessibility of samples and presets in the browser (via MIDI). Hint: I don't want to touch my mouse!

The announcement will be in November. Due to bugs and instabilities the release will be next year (after the 20 EUR coupon is expired).

I'm pretty sure their main concern is not to repeat last years bugfest.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:00 am

attackmode wrote:I expect:
- No Vst-Parameter limit
- More Drumrack features
- A Vocoder
- Quadcore support
- More Video functions
- Better 64bit support
- Maybe dualscreen support

I don't expect
- Recording of automation in session view

sounds like it could be a pretty realistic assessment IMO

attackmode wrote:I want
- Better accessibility of samples and presets in the browser (via MIDI). Hint: I don't want to touch my mouse!

+1 totally agree!

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:04 am

This is kinda sad to read......

"no automation in session view, because of complications"

-- Paraphrased....

I think it could be solved with an "automation recording fx."

Right? Like a phaser, but instead it just records midi.... pop it right into the midi fx section, next to the arp....

Doesn't that make sense? What does automation do? Record midi--- surely we have clip envelopes worked out... so all we need is a midi recording fx, for the midi fx section.. in your browsers....

etc. etc...

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:09 am

forge wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:things that are seemingly easy to code like x-fade curves
right click on the fader
he means in arrange view

my bad

LeifonMars · Post by **LeifonMars** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:09 am

Lately I've been longing for template of curves. It really bugs me when I have to edit stuff on Live instead of PT because of lack of those damn curves. Drawing each individually takes time. Or is there a workaround? Share it, gddammit!

Crash · Post by **Crash** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:10 am

attackmode wrote: - Better 64bit support

How about Vista support to begin with?