Syncing 2 laptops - Advice needed re: drum machines!

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:12 am

Unfortunately don't have access to anything to try this

jonathanm · Post by **jonathanm** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:19 am

maybe he means this :

http://www.ebertronic.com/downloadMidiViaNet.htm

here's a pay one with a trial....

http://www.nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html

another one :

http://www.musiclab.com/products/rpl_info.htm

also maybe you could try a midi clock generator prog, and slave both abletons...

http://www.bebits.com/app/2489

interested to hear how you get on with any of those...

J

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:52 am

jonathanm wrote:maybe he means this :

http://www.ebertronic.com/downloadMidiViaNet.htm

OK, I've DL'd this and it looks good - can't try it now as the guy I'm doing it with is at work, but looks pretty easy to set up from the readme file - also looks more like the program described in the other thread than the one I found last night...

Might see if I can get it going using my desktop actually (impatience!)

Thanks for the tip, I'll let you know how it goes.

Anyone else? (want as many options as possible as we can't hook up too often and next time HAS TO be more productive than last night's attempt!)

pepezabala · Post by **pepezabala** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:14 am

ollyb303 wrote: The Master is definitely sending midi clock and I can see it arriving at the usb midi cable . The slave is set to external and is receiving the midi clock. When I hit play on the master, it starts both, stop stops both. Both are playing at 160bpm.

So why the disappointment? Isn't that exactly what I was trying to do?

Well, yes, but they're not in time!!!! Not even close.

They're obviously both playing at the same speed so they are consistently off-beat, but it's not workable for a live performance in any way!

I really need good, tight sync - we're playing techno, so it's important for the beats to line up exactly - and this just isn't it.

if they are playing both at the same speed but are not in sync, then you can correct this. go to preferences on the slaves computer, go to the midi tab, at the midi input you use for sync, open the little triangle, there you have an option for a latency compensation.
Put on the metronom on both computers and try to get them in sync via this compensation. You can adjust it in milliseconds, it's quite optimal when both metronoms sounding get a "flanging" sound because they are overlaying nearly perfectly.

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:21 pm

thanks pepe. I will try that when we can next set it all up. sounds promising, I didn't realise that option was there. Seems like an obvious solution (I hope!)

Nice one

If not, does anyone else have anything?

ubermnd · Post by **ubermnd** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:49 pm

Me and my mate use a wireless midi sync. You have to set up a local area network and connect both machines to each other. Then you can set up a midi link.

I'm at work right now so I can't remember exactly the procedure but the internet is your friend! Its very easy and painless to set up.

I just realised though that you're on PC so I don't know if the same thing is possible.

ubermnd · Post by **ubermnd** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 pm

Also, what pepezabala said.

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:18 pm

If all else fails, try borrowing a 3rd party box that outputs MIDI clock [groove box, drum machine - anything] and run both computers as slaves. This is my strategy, and it works for me on my setup.

After booting both Live Sets, I always have to do a manual line-up of the two metronomes, and adjust one of them by a reliable 15ms in Preferences > MIDI Sync > MIDI Ports > Clock Sync Delay. After that they run sweetly.

Olly, is the bad sync constant (i.e. a latency issue), or drifting around the place?

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:18 pm

I have had a quick go at syncing via midi over wireless with my desktop box and the laptop today with limited success, I think the cable method should work so that's what I'm most keen to use.

@Pitch Black - was hoping you'd pitch in (sorry, no pun intended) - no access right now to another device, but I wasn't aware (I know, rtfm) of the delay compensation, so I think pepe's post has maybe been the most helpful and I will try to align metronomes this way. The sync does seem to be a constant 160bpm on both machines rather than drifting, so with a few ms compensation, I'm hopeful that this will be the ticket to the sync I'm looking for.

I've read extensively on the topic and can see no reason it shouldn't work so fingers crossed.

Can't try it tonight (family time) but tomorrow I will and I'll post the results!

Thanks everyone for your help with this.

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:11 pm

trying again today.... wish me luck!

trash · Post by **trash** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:39 pm

hey dude those plugins are a waste of time fuck them
use bloody OSC innit...
thats what its for
i use bidule vst to send the osc to the other comp
works ok... BUT..
ive tried this loads of times with pcs and macs etcetc....
it will never work that well unfortunately...
the sync will never be that tight
and if you introduce plugins into the equation you sometimes get them starting in weird points in the bar or totally out of sync.
i found a lot of startin and stopping was in order to get it to sync unless you play from the start... you may have different results... i think diff plugins pick up song sync in different ways... midi is basically bollocks and midi clock is gay.. shame abelton wont do midi timecode... think thats a bit better... or mebbe abelton does - who cares. the human race will destroy itself soon so midi clock wont be a problem...

ive found wormhole2 over a gigabit net to work very well too
in case you were bored waiting for the planet to die...

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:16 pm

So... tried using the midi usb cable using the clock sync delay option. Set at -75ms(!) it works a treat. Sync is tight as fuck.

Thanks to all who helped me sort this

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:06 pm

ollyb303 wrote:So... tried using the midi usb cable using the clock sync delay option. Set at -75ms(!) it works a treat. Sync is tight as fuck.

Thanks to all who helped me sort this

Hmmm spoke too soon... sync was very tight when we synced empty sets just using the metronome, but with full live sets loaded, it drifts all over the place.

Is this common with Live? Am I ever likely to get it to output a reliable midi clock?

Or should I give up on that idea and think about clocking off another piece of hardware? If so, what's likely to be the cheapest way to do this? I'd have to buy whatever the clock came off, what are my options?

jonathanm · Post by **jonathanm** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:57 am

Have you tried having both live's chasing clock from another app yet?

ollyb303 · Post by **ollyb303** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:25 am

I've spent hours trying to sort out syncing the two machines using MidiViaNet and Midi Yoke and couldn't get it to work. I was planning to try syncing both from a midi clock generator on one machine, but couldn't get the second machine to receive the signal (MidiViaNet was connected, followed all the instructions, but Live didn't seem to be picking up external sync from Midi Yoke on the second machine).

It's driving me crazy now, I just wanna get these machines synced so we can make some music!!!

Any tips gratefully received.

Cheerzen

Syncing 2 laptops - Advice needed re: drum machines!

Re: Syncing 2 laptops for performance