Beta for upcoming bug fix update available! Live 7.0.9b1!

ilia · Post by **ilia** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:00 pm

On Windows Vista and independent of buffer size and CPU usage, using some FW based audio interfaces would always result in clicks & pops in the audio as soon as multi-core support was enabled.

I am one of the people who had this and reported this about a year ago. Whatever the reason, may I humbly suggest that taking a year to fix a bug that renders the program unusable on a major OS is wholly unacceptable?

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:06 pm

Gnuus wrote:
just open up Kore on a track in Live, set up an instrument in Kore, open that instruments GUI, then go back to Live and try to set the MIDI channel of the track Kore is on. It should crash every time in 7.0.7.
Hopefully the beta fixes that. I'll check in a few hours.
I cannot reproduce that in 7.0.7 or 7.0.9b1...

Probably software / hardware dependent, IE certain graphics cards etc. Anyway, I never contacted Ableton about it, because it seemed related to Kore, but obviously Ableton acknowledged the bug as theirs.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:16 pm

ilia wrote: may I humbly suggest that taking a year to fix a bug that renders the program unusable on a major OS is wholly unacceptable?

To their defense, and honestly it's much more prevalent of a myth on OSX than Windows, but operating systems themselves can be buggy and lead to instability and problems.

Not that this is specifically the case with Vista, but it's possible that Problems emerging in a new OS are more than partly due to bad coding on the part of the OS developer, and not Ableton. Case in point was G5 multiprocessor support under OSX, when the four core G5 was released if a coder wrote code to take advantage of all four cores, massive problems would occur. Mac users being more loyal than Windows users it made for a difficult position with developers.

Anyway, it's possible this is all Abletons fault, but it's also possible a subsequent OS update helped to fix the problem and led to a solution.

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:41 am

Machinesworking wrote:
ilia wrote: may I humbly suggest that taking a year to fix a bug that renders the program unusable on a major OS is wholly unacceptable?
To their defense, and honestly it's much more prevalent of a myth on OSX than Windows, but operating systems themselves can be buggy and lead to instability and problems.

Even if bugs in the OS or like in this case a change in the driver are the source of the problem Ableton should at least be able to identify it once a user reports about it. But if Ilia reported the issue even 9 months before I did then Abletons seemingly were either not willing or not capable of doing so. Even worse Ableton told people who experienced the problem to simply turn of Multiprocessor support instead of working on a fix.

Anyway, it's possible this is all Abletons fault, but it's also possible a subsequent OS update helped to fix the problem and led to a solution.

Neither nor. It was a change in the RME ASIO driver that made its priority run higher than Live's Multiprocessor threads via MMCSS. It took Ableton 2 months to identify the problem, which took me less than 2 days once I was sick of waiting for them. Once I identified and reported RME provided a first fix within hours and a finally working fix within days. Nevertheless the change in Live is welcome just in case other driver vendors also try to incorporate MMCSS into their drivers without making it optional.

Even as we speak (write) am I fighting for several other issues to be at least identified by Ableton. Like with the above issue the root of problem is not that Ableton would not be willing to fix them, but that they are not able to reproduce them. Unfortunately like in the above case I am rather positive that their inability of reproducing reported problem is more a sign of bad issue/QA managment than a proof that these issues don't exist for all users.

Anyway, this was the last thread I had to finish. If any operator reads this, please delete my forum account now. Thanks.

carriero · Post by **carriero** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:08 pm

I'm just glad the MMCSS problems are finally being fixed. The new beta seems to take care of them. Ableton, all is forgiven (except perhaps the indignant responses to valid input and feedback). And Timur, I hope your last comment about cancelling your account was a joke. Your posts on the MMCSS problem were the only thing that kept me going during the long dark time of clicks and pops.