7.02 - MIDI Clock offset not working?

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:44 pm

I realized after taking all those shots that the scale wasn't in the screenshots, doh! If you look at the length of the impulse in the last picture and compare that to the length in the first picture, maybe that gives you a better idea. What worries me more is that each time I launch Live, the timing offset is completely different.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:46 pm

Tarekith wrote:What worries me more is that each time I launch Live, the timing offset is completely different.

That was exactly the problem with the stock OS X firewire audio drivers in 10.4. Strange. I never had this problem with the MOTU but something definitely isn't right with 7.0.3 here.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:44 am

I've just confirmed what I was seeing earlier. In 7.0.2 timing is very good, with variations in the 1-2ms range but essentially no extra latency with direct monitoring on the MOTU and a clock offset of -4ms. In 7.0.3b5, with exactly the same settings, I see a delay of ~20ms. This makes me think that some kind of delay calculation is going astray in Live 7.0.3.

Apparently there are some small timing irregularities in the MD too. I wonder if the cyclic drift you're seeing in your tests is coming from the MD?

Edit: one more data point - sequencing an external synth (Nord Lead 2x) and recording it back on a separate channel with direct monitoring doesn't seem to incur any extra latency VS 7.0.2. Strange.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:14 am

I don't think the timing of the MD should have anything to do with, for all intents it's clock is off when synced externally. I have a Korg EMX on the way, I'll test again with that when it arrives.

Are you seein the same offset needed each time you open Live, or is that fluctuating like I'm seeing too?

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:19 am

Tarekith wrote: Are you seein the same offset needed each time you open Live, or is that fluctuating like I'm seeing too?

It seems to be consistent here, just but consistently 20ms or so slow.

What did you set your audio latency to? In my loopback test I got 1.6ms for the Ultralite with a buffer size of 128 samples.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:28 am

I always leave mine at 256 or 512, usually 256 though. I'm not concerned with having the lowest latency possible.

timothyallan · Post by **timothyallan** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:59 am

I constantly had issues with my Korg ES1 and L7 and 10.4.11. I ended up selling the ES1 because I couldn't be buggered fiddling with the sync anymore every time I started Live... that and I didnt really use it much

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:00 am

timothyallan wrote:I constantly had issues with my Korg ES1 and L7 and 10.4.11. I ended up selling the ES1 because I couldn't be buggered fiddling with the sync anymore every time I started Live... that and I didnt really use it much

I had problems like this up until Live 7, which has been working beautifully for me so far. That's why I'm so alarmed that 7.0.3 seems to be a regression. I've gotten used to not worrying about these issues.

roby · Post by **roby** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:05 pm

the problem i'm having (after having some hardware issues) is that Live and my Machinedrum drift from sync very badly. they both start off together but after a few runs the machinedrum starts drifting.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:16 pm

Do you have both TEMPO and CTRL set to EXT in the MD?

roby · Post by **roby** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:06 pm

yeah, i've even tried a bunch of combinations and no luck. it's really retarded, but i've never had this issue before. T, i know you own both Machinedrum and Monomachine. how do you have yours hooked up??? what i'm doing is TM-1 -> Monomachine --MIDI thru--> Machinedrum --MIDI out--> TM-1

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:17 pm

Actually I only have the MD, not the MnM. So I'm guessing that the Mono is not passing the clock info, which is how a lot of midi devices work actually. Does it happen if you sync the MD directly? I'd say ask on the Elektron-User forums and see if anyone else is connecting this way.

roby · Post by **roby** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:26 pm

i'll try that

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:37 pm

Live as a Master Midi Clock (at least on Windows) is not stable, it can produce considerate drop-outs in the sync-signal which unsurprisingly will bring external instruments out of sync (aka it thinks the clock slowed down due to less sync-events per second arriving). At this time I wouldn't trust Live to be my clock Master, better use an external clock.

roby · Post by **roby** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:37 pm

it used to be pretty stable to me up until last night. i need to go back and try again with 7.02 to see if it's a system issue or a Live version issue, but 7.03's sync with the elektron stuff sucks ass...