Real dummy clips feature.

Tweaking Knobs · Post by **Tweaking Knobs** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:01 pm

yes , i want a feature like dummy clips but wich is an effect , you can through everywhere.

we can call it , session automation clips.

in that effect you can add asmany effects as you want and automations as u want.

this is cool , believe me.

breakphreak · Post by **breakphreak** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:18 pm

any differences between Effects Rack would be required, I think...

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:18 pm

I much rather see this as a dedicated device because i don't want to draw envelopes..

are you familiar with Surge?
it has a great modulation section.
LFO (shapable by envelope) a mini mod sequencer and an envelope..

now what if you could drag this device on a track,
activate a new sort of macro mapping, and assign the modulation output to any parameter..
Or you could even assign this modulation to a macro dial and then reroute to parameters..

you could trigger this device by keys, mouse etc..
one shot, looping, loop FW, BW, RNDM.. go crazy..

i.m.o. way more powerfull and easier to use..
and it doesn't even require a separate track..

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:33 pm

that would be incredible Poster

Idonotlikebroccoli · Post by **Idonotlikebroccoli** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:41 pm

I wish I could use an lfo device like that within live to control any parameter in the device chain. Something like what you can do with autopan to control volume.

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:45 pm

that deform parameter on Surge is just sick..

try to draw that into a dummy clip,
or even change it on the fly..

the days of dummy clips are over i.m.o.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:07 pm

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:10 pm

hoffman2k wrote:

haaa! Sir Dummy.. did I offend?

breakphreak · Post by **breakphreak** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:00 am

Poster: why do you think they are over? the concept of dummy clips is periodic repetative automation (just like sound clips are periodic repetative sounds

).

What do you think as a better alternative for the dummy clips? An independent modulation generators? A track that can serve as a modulator for the FXs in the arrangement?

The reason I've proposed "official" dummy clips on return channels was that this feature would be relatively simple to implement (imho).

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:25 am

Poster wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
haaa! Sir Dummy.. did I offend?

Control envelope plugins still aren't going to drive my sequencer. They're not going to control routing either.

And last but not least... You think I'd have trouble making dummy clips for an envelope generator plugin?

No you didn't offend. You amused me

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:34 pm

breakphreak wrote:Poster: why do you think they are over? the concept of dummy clips is periodic repetative automation (just like sound clips are periodic repetative sounds ).

What do you think as a better alternative for the dummy clips? An independent modulation generators? A track that can serve as a modulator for the FXs in the arrangement?

The reason I've proposed "official" dummy clips on return channels was that this feature would be relatively simple to implement (imho).

this is my idea of a official 'dummy clip' feature.. bit rough mock-up, but you get the idea..

what I want is a new Envelope Rack..
this rack would be similar to the Audio Effects Rack..
Difference is; it doesn't do anything as long as you're not triggering it.. (so initially it just bypasses audio)..

This rack would allow you to create 8 device chains..
These chains can be filled with audio effect devices..

Now, to each chain you can assign a modulator (read; envelope)
An LFO [img 1, 4], an ADSR type envelope [2] and a mini mod sequencer [3]..
The output of these 'envelope generators' can be mapped to device parameters in the chain [2],
the same way as you can Macro Map parameters to Rack Macro dials.

Next step is to trigger the envelopes..
You could map Key and MIDI to these 8 chains [1], or just trigger by mouse click..
So if you hit a Key, the envelope is triggered, and only then audio will pass through this chain,
and the devices will be modulated accordingly..

the reason I never really use dummy clips is;
- can't save them convenient enough to tracks/device chains..
- its hell to draw exotic envelopes shapes, or to even change them on the fly..
- you need an extra track and do track routing..

These new racks would allow you to;
- save envelopes within device chains..
- easy to create very exotic and complex envelopes and change them on the fly..
- no extra tracks, all contained within one track..
- trigger envelopes (un)synced to global quantization..
- add as much racks to a track as you want..
- can be placed on all tracks, including returns and master..
- save them as presets..
- use in free run mode to act as parameter modulators without the need to trigger them..

i don't think dummy clips are over because you can always use them,
i only think the next step should be something way better and more powerfull..

breakphreak · Post by **breakphreak** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:51 pm

Looks great, but sometimes you do need a certain envelope to be just as precise as could be only drawn, and not by any automated classic form. AFAIK, the solution, proposed by you, (still being very flexible) has another challenge

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:14 pm

awesome Poster!

but I think the envelope section would look like the typical Live Black rectangle with orange envelopes in it

but I would love something like that

I feel that is heading into C74 territory though and could probably imagine building it yourself in the kind of Live internal pluggo thing they develop!

breakphreak · Post by **breakphreak** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:18 pm

Putting LFO (which is an oscillator) as a self-consistent component is just under the risk of one-step-to-building-a-modular-synth

which will support AM/FM etc. That could be far better, but would require a tremendous programming effort.

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:20 pm

breakphreak wrote:Putting LFO (which is an oscillator) as a self-consistent component is just under the risk of one-step-to-building-a-modular-synth which will support AM/FM etc. That could be far better, but would require a tremendous programming effort.

think of it as rebranding the envelope section in clips and giving it a different interface