absolutely..forge wrote: but I think the envelope section would look like the typical Live Black rectangle with orange envelopes in it
exactly..forge wrote:think of it as rebranding the envelope section in clips and giving it a different interfacebreakphreak wrote:Putting LFO (which is an oscillator) as a self-consistent component is just under the risk of one-step-to-building-a-modular-synthwhich will support AM/FM etc. That could be far better, but would require a tremendous programming effort.
Ahh, you mean, the "old" dummy clips will remain supported...Poster wrote:??breakphreak wrote:envelop-less clips... uhm... how to synchronize/connect between:
1. Audio
2. FXs
3. Automations
hopefully, my scepticism will help to find a right way to do it
there will still be clip envelopes
my mock-up has nothing to do with clips nor clip envelopes, nor with how the current dummy clips are used..breakphreak wrote: Ahh, you mean, the "old" dummy clips will remain supported...
What about routing same "envelope/dummy_clip2.0" to a number of parameters on different tracks including returns? I think, it can be implemented due to MIDI routing in mixer. Is there MIDI routing to return channels?
So, who's the modulator of modulators? Then "dummy clips 1.0" can be used to modulate your LFO units. Thus, we'll still need those old dummy clips to be enabled on return channels too.Poster wrote: my mock-up has nothing to do with clips nor clip envelopes
Should we separate it into a dedicated feature request?Poster wrote: free routing of MIDI throughout Live is definately something I like to see in the future..
nope..breakphreak wrote:So, who's the modulator of modulators? Then "dummy clips 1.0" can be used to modulate your LFO units. Thus, we'll still need those old dummy clips to be enabled on return channels too.Poster wrote: my mock-up has nothing to do with clips nor clip envelopes
So, the envelope will be controlled by MIDI events/automations. Thanks, got your good point.Poster wrote: nope..
you be able to trigger those envelopes just as you are able to trigger dummy clips.. by MIDI, Keys or mouse..
so YOU are the modulator of modulators..
no need for dummy clips on the return tracks because you can drop this 'envelope rack' on a return track..
+1Poster wrote:this is my idea of a official 'dummy clip' feature.. bit rough mock-up, but you get the idea..breakphreak wrote:Poster: why do you think they are over? the concept of dummy clips is periodic repetative automation (just like sound clips are periodic repetative sounds).
What do you think as a better alternative for the dummy clips? An independent modulation generators? A track that can serve as a modulator for the FXs in the arrangement?
The reason I've proposed "official" dummy clips on return channels was that this feature would be relatively simple to implement (imho).
what I want is a new Envelope Rack..
this rack would be similar to the Audio Effects Rack..
Difference is; it doesn't do anything as long as you're not triggering it.. (so initially it just bypasses audio)..
This rack would allow you to create 8 device chains..
These chains can be filled with audio effect devices..
Now, to each chain you can assign a modulator (read; envelope)
An LFO [img 1, 4], an ADSR type envelope [2] and a mini mod sequencer [3]..
The output of these 'envelope generators' can be mapped to device parameters in the chain [2],
the same way as you can Macro Map parameters to Rack Macro dials.
Next step is to trigger the envelopes..
You could map Key and MIDI to these 8 chains [1], or just trigger by mouse click..
So if you hit a Key, the envelope is triggered, and only then audio will pass through this chain,
and the devices will be modulated accordingly..
the reason I never really use dummy clips is;
- can't save them convenient enough to tracks/device chains..
- its hell to draw exotic envelopes shapes, or to even change them on the fly..
- you need an extra track and do track routing..
These new racks would allow you to;
- save envelopes within device chains..
- easy to create very exotic and complex envelopes and change them on the fly..
- no extra tracks, all contained within one track..
- trigger envelopes (un)synced to global quantization..
- add as much racks to a track as you want..
- can be placed on all tracks, including returns and master..
- save them as presets..
- use in free run mode to act as parameter modulators without the need to trigger them..
i don't think dummy clips are over because you can always use them,
i only think the next step should be something way better and more powerfull..
nice pictures too. Needs an audio controlled envelopefollower.
