'Compress / Hide Time' in Arrangement..

[Benshik]

even though i find that idea very ingenious, im not sure i would like to have it implemented in live.
imagine in a future update we get hypothetical folder tracks, racks, and now whole chunks compressed into tiny locators. i think it makes the programs way too complicated as all parts are folded, hidden, compressed somewhere out of reach. id prefer a more visual, straightforward "what you see is what you get approach" which is what live has always been about.

as an alternative, i'd rather see the session view store automation data, so whole chunks of arrangement could be cut and pasted back and forth session and arrange view...

my 0.02c

ben

[Poster]

even though i find that idea very ingenious, im not sure i would like to have it implemented in live.
imagine in a future update we get hypothetical folder tracks, racks, and now whole chunks compressed into tiny locators. i think it makes the programs way too complicated as all parts are folded, hidden, compressed somewhere out of reach. id prefer a more visual, straightforward "what you see is what you get approach" which is what live has always been about.

as an alternative, i'd rather see the session view store automation data, so whole chunks of arrangement could be cut and pasted back and forth session and arrange view...

my 0.02c

ben

This idea is straightforward and very 'Ableton' i.m.o..
I guess you don't like folder tracks and racks then either? Also 'folded' content..

'What you see is what you get' is a nice saying,
but in case of Live (and software in general) almost undoable..
We all want new and more features, so Live will grow, 'screen estate' will therefore be scarce..
To use screen space in a very economic way, folding and collapsing has been a proven method..
Also very needed if you want to keep things clean..
Ofcourse things can get a bit complex if you go fold and hide stuff; but its either this or less features..
Can you imagine racks without folding/collapsing? - I don't t.b.h.

In case of my wish of 'compressing time' I'm not sure if things would get complex really..
Actually it should be a way of making things less complex.. But if you don't like folding it all ends here..

There are 2 methods;
A. as you said; copy whole chuncks to Session for easy storage and later use..
B. compress time as a replacement of > create a place in the Arranger to store chuncks for later use (most people use time before or after the actual composition)

A. ofcourse very usefull, but has some points..
- you have to switch from Session to Arrange and back..
- keep those chunks grouped and organized, preferably in 1 scene..
- if you decide to put them back in Arrange you can't just drop them anywhere you want.. Not just in the middle of a track..
- it eats screen space..

B.
- you can stay in Arrange, keeping oversight of all your material..
- don't worry about organizing; just compress and all chuncks are neatly grouped..
- drag the 'compress locator' to any place in your song,
then decompress; your composition is not ruined because all other content makes place for the decompressed content..
So it always 'fits'..
- it doesn't eat screen space..

This idea is to make composing in Arrange easier,
not to just act as an easy storage container.. (although it can be used like that..)

my 0.02c

[mercyplease]

Cubase SX play order track is the same idea. This feature sounds to much like what the clips in session view already do. Its a rehash of whats already there and not particularly useful if you can jam and record your song arrangements from session view. What would be the point if you have your live spur of the moment arrangement is nailed? do you think your fancy gimmicky not very useful **hidden bit of the song** function that you all dreamed of being implemented is going to make any difference? and what about the muso who can get his arrangements right bar a few timeline edits here and there what use is it to him? nah take your gimmicky gumf and send it in to orbit. this software needs some serious attention in much more important areas. If you cant arrange using session view and arrange view combined then no amount of gimmicks will get you on the path.

[Poster]

Cubase SX play order track is the same idea. This feature sounds to much like what the clips in session view already do. Its a rehash of whats already there and not particularly useful if you can jam and record your song arrangements from session view. What would be the point if you have your live spur of the moment arrangement is nailed? do you think your fancy gimmicky not very useful **hidden bit of the song** function that you all dreamed of being implemented is going to make any difference? and what about the muso who can get his arrangements right bar a few timeline edits here and there what use is it to him? nah take your gimmicky gumf and send it in to orbit. this software needs some serious attention in much more important areas. If you cant arrange using session view and arrange view combined then no amount of gimmicks will get you on the path.

mate.. you didn't understand one bit of it..
still on those pills?

[siliconarc]

i agree with mercy about the similarities of this idea to cubase's Play Order, but its also an excellent idea in its own right. mercy, you're not seeing the bigger picture here. as i understand from Poster, 'compress time' would allow chunks to be moved around the arrangement TO DIFFERENT TEMPOS, and would stretch/compress accordingly. Session View does not allow multiple tempos to flip between. you're thinking on a track-by track basis; this idea would work on a WHOLE GIG SET basis! maybe all your tracks are in the same bpm but many of us use many diff tempos in our Live sets.

[Poster]

as i understand from Poster, 'compress time' would allow chunks to be moved around the arrangement TO DIFFERENT TEMPOS,

the tempo thing is ofcourse one way how you could use this..
didn't think of that.. clever..

but initialy I want to be able to quick hide some parts of the arrangement..

parts that I'm not sure about, sketch parts, but don't want to drag/store them at the end of the song..

when you drag chunks out of your arrangement it also leaves a gap..
if you would compress the chunk nothing happens to the arrangement..
then you decompress it, at any given location, it instantly 'fits' and no automation is ruined..

the Cubase Play Order is something that could be implemented with the 'normal' locators, Live already has..
The locators in my mock up are something totally different..
They're not 'start' locators, (as Live now has) but just visual clues to where hidden parts are located..

[dr.wackler]

but initialy I want to be able to quick hide some parts of the arrangement.

That's what I thought initially, when I read your first post on this topic some months ago:
I guess people would understand your brilliant idea better if you called it "hide time". The term "compress time" might be a bit misleading in the first place, as Live is all about timestretching, thus compressing/expanding 'time'. From the thread title I couldn't have imagined what feature request this would be about.

I hope Ableton is listening here and that they grasp the full potential of this idea.

[Poster]

but initialy I want to be able to quick hide some parts of the arrangement.

I guess people would understand your brilliant idea better if you called it "hide time". The term "compress time" might be a bit misleading in the first place,

yep.. you're right about that one..
changed topic title..

[Poster]

bump..

[pepezabala]

what if you could drag the 'compress locator' into the browser,
Live would then save the compressed part as a new set with all associated files..

I believe you can already do this.

Poster, what if you just drag the sections from arrangement into the browser, rename them such as "intro", "chorus", "chorus version 2", "chorus #3" etc. then you can later try out any combinations by dragging them back into the set. And you don't need to compress time.

(although, if we already "warp tempo", why shouldn't we also "compress time" )

[djgroovy]

Yes, that idea has huge potential. It can be used like that cubase thingy, it can be used to decide whether you want to keep that section or not, it can be used to 'fold' big arrangements for easier editing, etc.
I don't know if it's easy to implement though.
What i would change is the visual cue, it would have to be something not so similar to a normal locator.

[Poster]

What i would change is the visual cue, it would have to be something not so similar to a normal locator.

it's just a quick mock up.. that locator has to be a bit different indeed..

[Philippe_Michael]

Oops, posted this in the rong thread

Simple thaought, I would actualy call it "section compacting/hiding" or "compact/hide area". Something on the lines of that, cause it doesn't really have to do with time. It feels like your taking away time or something like that, which obviously is impossible, hehe.

Anyhow, +1. Very neat idea! Though very adventurous

[Nokatus]

Simple thaought, I would actualy call it "section compacting/hiding" or "compact/hide area". Something on the lines of that, cause it doesn't really have to do with time.

When you already have things like "insert time" and "duplicate time", using the same terminology for hiding time would be more appropriate.

I wouldn't even call this adventurous, it's very simple and elegant ... One of my favourite "completely new functionality" requests. I think MIDI LFO comes before this in my list, though. (This doesn't take into account the features which wouldn't add completely new functionality but MUST HAVE improvements and fixes, like fixing the 128 parameter limit and having multiple outputs in Sampler )

[Poster]