How to disable Mr. Ugly Warp completely??

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:03 pm

josh:

by man up, i mean that you might have to accept the fact that you need to pay attention to what you are doing if you import audio from elsewhere. No program in the world is going to pay attention to what you are doing for you.

However, if you treat live like a multitrack and record into it and then edit and arrange, having warp on will not make a difference until you change the tempo or use complex warp mode.

go ahead and say that i have an "emotional investment" or am blindly defending ableton. That's bullshit. I'm just trying to prevent you and others from doing other people who don't know any better a disservice by spreading half truths.

Ricky:

post a file.

-or-

explain how the phase cancelation test is flawed.

.lm.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:46 pm

I am interested in technicalities, reading and all that but I wont make myself depend on it.
Simply noticed 2-3 days ago while working on that tune, since it was all recorded synced and there wasn't need to changed tempo I could switch the warp.
Come on just because you did your test and I read about it here I should convince myself that it sounds the same when it does not?
I am practical person, have to finish a tune then will go for Bhangra or have sex or even better both pick up a hot Punjabi at Bhangra party. Spend enough time this week with the bloody new file mismanagement system, need some entertainment, I earned it.

It is great to have fellows like you, investigative type , would love to help but how. Ideally you should be here , hear it then proceed with the test.
Could send you the clip but what would you do with it ?
It is simple if there is no need for warp switch it off, it is only when you actually have a problem , that applies to anything else in life, not even Live, that it is necessary to worry and try to solve it.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:44 pm

i'm not asking you to just believe what i'm saying, i'm asking you to try the test yourself.

and i cannot simply believe what you are saying without some sort of evidence.

post the file for everyone to examine.

there is no difference between warp on and off when the tempo is the same (in beats tones textures) and no warp marker has been moved. Therefore there is no reason to turn warp off.

.lm.

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:46 pm

this is so weird -- josh is saying that live's warp affects sound quality when you drag into a song all sorts of clips with different tempos. ummmm, of course it does. without warp, you couldn't just drag in the clips and have them play in time. so that cannot possible be relevant to a discussion of how to turn warp off, right? if you turn warp off, you cannot have all those clips play in time, can't just throw things in from your browser and play them (unless they're nonrhythmic or already all at same tempo).

unless i'm misunderstanding, it makes no sense to complain about not being able to turn warp off (because of what it does to audio when timestretching) and then use as an example building songs predicated on warp functionality.

the only people for whom this should matter is those using live as a multitracker that permits looping (looping via warp so that you can use session as the equivalent to logic folders or somesuch). people using linear multitrack don't need loop/warp. and, most importantly, people using live to timestretch need warp to affect sound quality (by slowing things down or up, changing pitch, etc.).

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:48 pm

exactly.

and we're all like, "no shit!"

try changing the pitch of a sample without changing the time or vice versa in any application and see if if sounds the same.

.lm.

4ace · Post by **4ace** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:18 pm

Gather a 50 track session........with ALL tracks set to repitch...Check your CPU....

Now do the same with warp turned OFF......Check CPU.......

Something is working it's ass off.......

I guess i'll have to read all 4 pages of the thread now...

Josh Von · Post by **Josh Von** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:21 pm

4ace wrote:Gather a 50 track session........with ALL tracks set to repitch...Check your CPU....

Now do the same with warp turned OFF......Check CPU.......

Something is working it's ass off.......

I guess i'll have to read all 4 pages of the thread now...

.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:26 pm

that's cool, so there's a concern and a reason to turn warp off.

just remember that's different from saying that there is a difference in sound quality.

the cpu usage is there because the program must be ready to warp the track as soon as you change the tempo. So what? doesn't invalidate what i am saying.

BTW, after you read all 4 pages, you'll notice that i discovered repitch *does* change the sound even at orig. tempo. That is odd. Now, it doesn't mean it degrades the sound quality, but something is up with repitch.

.lm.

edit - > yes, im still wrong about repitch in this post too. repitch is fine.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:29 pm

so supster, nothing else to say for yourself other than smirking?

y'know, you are going to be wrong every once in a while. You may as well start facing it with some grace instead of always being such a douche bag.

.lm.

4ace · Post by **4ace** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:46 pm

O.K so i got the jest of the four pages.....

If the program has to "be ready" to process audio at the drop of a dime then that would mean the audio is passing through some type of algorithm.

Personally i feel that certain material can be muddy when track count get's over 20.

Oddly enough i like what that "muddy-ness" does to other material.It just makes it harder to get consistant mixes.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:55 pm

4ace wrote: If the program has to "be ready" to process audio at the drop of a dime then that would mean the audio is passing through some type of algorithm.

actually, neither of us know that for certain.

what we do know for certain is that one clip copied to two tracks, one with warp on, one with warp off are identical (in beats, tones and textures. NOT repitch or complex). the fact that they cancel each other out 100% when one's phase is flipped is scientific proof of the fact that they are the same.

.lm.

Josh Von · Post by **Josh Von** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:52 am

leisuremuffin wrote:what we do know for certain is that one clip copied to two tracks, one with warp on, one with warp off are identical (in beats, tones and textures. NOT repitch or complex). the fact that they cancel each other out 100% when one's phase is flipped is scientific proof of the fact that they are the same.

I think we've also established that you think Im almost always right

.

YILA · Post by **YILA** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:30 am

forum admin, please put a sticky about this and shut people up!

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:01 am

leisuremuffin wrote: it's been proven that with beats, texture, and tones mode the warp engine does nothing when the orig. tempo of the clip matches that of the current song.

Please, can we be VERY careful about this? Texture and tones have NOT proven to be safe at original tempo, from what experimenting I've done and from what I've read.

Again, Beats and RePitch are the safe modes, with a slight chance of very small (1-2 samples-like small?) differences in clip length with repitch.

I decree that anybody who posts anything contrary to that must post in the context of a detailed experiment report.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:10 am

longjohns wrote:I decree that anybody who posts anything contrary to that must post in the context of a detailed experiment report.

Could you post .als files for those of us watching this cage match, if you're going to set up experiments, I'd like to check them out too. I could try them myself but I'm up to other stuff tonight (new PodXT). I am interested in what y'all have to say.