Midi bug?

phatline · Post by **phatline** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:37 pm

OK one thing I must say, to write in this Forum doesnt make fun, its Eye carcinogen, and you find nothing!

That is what MTL sends when I press ROWPLAY one time:
TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00003CE5 3 2 B0 64 7F 1 --- CC: RPN LSB
00003CE5 3 3 B0 64 7F 1 --- CC: RPN LSB
00003D3D 3 2 B0 64 00 1 --- CC: RPN LSB
00003D3D 3 3 B0 64 00 1 --- CC: RPN LSB

And that is what Ableton returns:
TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00003CE5 3 -- B0 64 7F 1 --- CC: RPN LSB
00003D3D 3 -- B0 64 00 1 --- CC: RPN LSB

This is what MTL sends when I select a other row:
TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00055AD5 3 2 B0 67 40 1 --- Control Change
00055AD5 3 3 B0 67 40 1 --- Control Change

Thats what Ableton returns
TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00055AD5 3 -- B0 67 40 1 --- Control Change

When I press ROW PLAY, to enter the new selectet row MTL sends this
TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00078306 3 2 B0 64 7F 1 --- CC: RPN LSB
00078306 3 3 B0 64 7F 1 --- CC: RPN LSB
0007837D 3 2 B0 64 00 1 --- CC: RPN LSB
0007837D 3 3 B0 64 00 1 --- CC: RPN LSB

Ableton returns this, and MTL statusview jump from play to stop
TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00078306 3 -- B0 64 7F 1 --- CC: RPN LSB
0007837D 3 -- B0 64 00 1 --- CC: RPN LSB

Hope that Helps... you see by me it is the same problem

chapelier fou · Post by **chapelier fou** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:55 pm

Please make your experiences.......... and stop ask the same over and over again : )
I no want ofend to you, but understand experimenting its the best way to have real results : )

For first stage of your experiments, install midi yoke, and MIDI-OX (its midi monitor) with this monitor you can see what ableton send out.

sorry, but with my poor english, I must look like a midi newbie....
For now, my ableton doesn't output any midi when playing clips. That the first BIG problem, I have contacted ableton support to know how to make the options.txt work.
And I wanted to exactly what kind of messages it sends, because I will need to buy another midi doepfer module : so I got to know before if it will work with the rest of my machine.... That was my second problem, thanks.

gafferuk · Post by **gafferuk** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:01 pm

chapelier fou wrote:
Please make your experiences.......... and stop ask the same over and over again : )
I no want ofend to you, but understand experimenting its the best way to have real results : )

For first stage of your experiments, install midi yoke, and MIDI-OX (its midi monitor) with this monitor you can see what ableton send out.
sorry, but with my poor english, I must look like a midi newbie....
For now, my ableton doesn't output any midi when playing clips. That the first BIG problem, I have contacted ableton support to know how to make the options.txt work.
And I wanted to exactly what kind of messages it sends, because I will need to buy another midi doepfer module : so I got to know before if it will work with the rest of my machine.... That was my second problem, thanks.

It sends exactly the same message back.
For example if you send "channel 1, cc 26, controllerMessage" it will send back "channel 1, cc 26, controllerMessage"
It's the same for noteOn/noteOff, pitch wheel or any of the other messages,

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:21 pm

chapelier fou you no need that txt file! just forgot that txt file ! : )

You no need that txt fuile for recive the midi feedback.

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:22 pm

pathline sorry but what you want say with this:

OK one thing I must say, to write in this Forum doesnt make fun, its Eye carcinogen, and you find nothing!

???

Thankyou for your test, show the ableton have real bug.
Thankyou

Robert some idea about when this can be fixed?

phatline · Post by **phatline** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:47 pm

[quote="Dj-Grobe"]pathline sorry but what you want say with this:

OK one thing I must say, to write in this Forum doesnt make fun, its Eye carcinogen, and you find nothing!

???

In Austria, we have a sentence, for bad looking, websites where you dont find the things you seek, @ websites like this- your heartbeat get to 180 and you only wish to go away....

in german the sentence sound like this " da kriegst du augenkrebs"
free in english translatet sound like this "see this page and you get a eye carcinoma....."

cheers

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:29 am

Robert Henke wrote:Hi DJ Grobe, you should allways get the right status info back, but depending on the MIDI driver / hardware we currently cannot ensure 100% that the order of MIDI messages is correct. A solution is to slightly delay all feedack data > 0.(5ms should do the job). This ensures the clip stop message from the currently running clip ( "0" ) will allways be overwritten by the statt message ( "127" ) from the new one.

Hope that makes sense. Happy new year to everybody.

Robert

Robert, ii contact to ableton support, and the answer he send its really bad, i send PM to you with that.

I tested this with midiyoke, with serial midi output, with m-audio midi etc etc etc.
All time ableton send correctly play status when play individual clips, but return bad status when use global play clips : (
You recomend delay, but i cant understadn how that can create any change..the last mesage its 0 , so no make any sense.

Please can chek this, and confirm if this its bug or what?

Please

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:36 am

I continue working on this, and see not only happen when use row plays, this happen too when:

Use play rows and i put on one track, 3 clips, when play the first click see ableton send this value out:

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00032BB7 3 -- B0 01 7E 1 --- CC: Modulation
00032D79 3 -- B0 01 7F 1 --- CC: Modulation

This is ok, but when make click on other clip have this:
0003D9FD 3 -- B0 01 7E 1 --- CC: Modulation this is 126
0003DF97 3 -- B0 01 7F 1 --- CC: Modulation this is 127
0003E014 3 -- B0 01 00 1 --- CC: Modulation and this is 0 !

If play the same clicp, have corre output again:

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00032BB7 3 -- B0 01 7E 1 --- CC: Modulation
00032D79 3 -- B0 01 7F 1 --- CC: Modulation

If play other diferent clip on same track have again 0:

This is ok, but when make click on other clip have this:
0003D9FD 3 -- B0 01 7E 1 --- CC: Modulation this is 126
0003DF97 3 -- B0 01 7F 1 --- CC: Modulation this is 127
0003E014 3 -- B0 01 00 1 --- CC: Modulation and this is 0 !

Dont know why this happen and waht util can be send 0 to out.
This is bug?

Or when i playing one clip on one track and play other clip on same track, ableton send to output 0 indicating last clip stoped, but no continue indicating the status of the new clip played !!!

I consider this a real bug, and i tring figure how can obtain the status of clip played, when play diferent clips on same track... but its imposible, last valu its = 0 !!
cant deal with that on anyway.

Please apreciate help form sombody form ableton.

IMPORTANT INFO: I MIDI LEARNED TRACK LAUNCH FOR PLAY CLIPS HIGHLIGHTED

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:18 pm

Like robert H say, the trouble its ableton send the order of midi events, wrong, abletoun should directly not send the 0 value shen you change from opne playing clip to other clip on same track.

At this moment ableton send the stoped value of the last played clip on same track, and that value its 0,

Please robert can confirm if this its a bug and if this be fixed or changed in the future?
its my question now, becuase if this never be changed from ableton i need find the way to make my software show the play status correctly, and for that now no have anyway to make, so need work a lot on that, but if ableton fix, i should wait for that fix.

Final aclaration:
When have individual clips midi mapped, every midi clip return the status correctly, but maping "TRACK LAUNCH" for launch highlighted clips , the trouble start,........ableton send wrong status, and this its a trouble.
I think ableton should not send stoped status if some clip continue playing on that track, when "TRACK LAUINCH" its mapped for shot the highlighted clips.....and that fix all trouble.

Please robert of anyone form ableton, send some official repply about this, ..........i stay 100% freezed due this and think any controller wnat show the status of clips and use "track launch" maped..... cant have the real status of clip playng on track when change play to other clip on same track.

If fix the order how ableton send the info, that not help a lot, because ableton send anyway 0 status, and that make blink the button with no reason.

Best regards.

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:56 pm

Nobody from ableton?

Robert Henke · Post by **Robert Henke** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:13 pm

We will certainly change this at some point. It will be most likely addressed together with improving more MIDI related issues, like better timing of MIDI events and better support for external MIDI hardware etc. But we cannot tell you when it will be done.

Robert

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:30 pm

Ok Robert, really hoppe this be adressed son, because this kill any possibility of have correct feedback on external controller.
I aparebtlyu have other trouble detected create trouble, on feedback, but i need confirm that before make public or report to ableton.
If i confirm the other trouble, want make public? wants end private message?

Thankyou so much for sendme clear repply about this issue, i hoppe the midi feedback be improved because, its really neded for external controllers.

The simple action of show if clip its playing or no, make you can have focused your mind in the controller and no need check all time the ableton screen.

really hoppe the next upgarde this clip feedback be adressed

Please when ableton work on fix this , i have teh solution here and its simple.
When you change on same track from one clip to other clip using "TRACK LAUNCH" no send the stop status 0 if other clip its playing on same track

The more simple fix, be invert the info sended by ableton, and send first the stop and then the 126 and 127 of new button clip pressed, but this make ugly blink the controller.....
Anyway any of this 2 fixes are aceptable.

Thanks again for your time.

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:22 pm

Well i put my barian to work the last 4 days, thinking 24hs how adress this trouble for have correct feedback.
I decide stop in few hours, no way to find some internally way on my software to fix this issue.

Sorry for insist, but hoppe this be fixed soon
I can confirm abnother trouble with midi feedback.

The loop buton not return feedback, the only feedback realted to loop ist playing track return value 1 instead 127 when track its on loop mode.
The trouble its this value should be changed again to 127 when disable loop button, but ableton continue playing with status 1 ; (
I not understand how usefull this can be.
Ableton should back to 127 after loop its disabled, this increase the possible util of midi feedback, realted to loop.

This 2 features shoulbe fixed, due to nature way of ableton concept, and making music with loops, play feedback and loop feedback its really util for performing, ...........of course the best feedback its the hear, but visual feedback of this 2 things directly on the controller its really usefull.

Best regards.

gafferuk · Post by **gafferuk** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:29 pm

Dj-Grobe wrote:Well i put my barian to work the last 4 days, thinking 24hs how adress this trouble for have correct feedback.
I decide stop in few hours, no way to find some internally way on my software to fix this issue.

Sorry for insist, but hoppe this be fixed soon
I can confirm abnother trouble with midi feedback.

The loop buton not return feedback, the only feedback realted to loop ist playing track return value 1 instead 127 when track its on loop mode.
The trouble its this value should be changed again to 127 when disable loop button, but ableton continue playing with status 1 ; (
I not understand how usefull this can be.
Ableton should back to 127 after loop its disabled, this increase the possible util of midi feedback, realted to loop.

This 2 features shoulbe fixed, due to nature way of ableton concept, and making music with loops, play feedback and loop feedback its really util for performing, ...........of course the best feedback its the hear, but visual feedback of this 2 things directly on the controller its really usefull.

Best regards.

DjGrobe, i've completed my triger-pad for launching clips and it works fine. Im finding no bug in ableton.

Dj-Grobe · Post by **Dj-Grobe** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:01 pm

Your trigger have MIDI feedback?, i mean, your tigger pad have some led, showing the status of clip?

Your pad show if clip its on or off?

Please repply that, if yes, please explain how you map, midi.

I have confirmation from other guys, and directly form ableton : )

Bug exist and its real, and need fix asap : )