Ableton 6 + Reason Rewired, off sync ?

soundpalace · Post by **soundpalace** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:18 am

I am noticing with the Ableton 6 demo that when running in ReWire mode, the apps are slightly off sync. The more I up the latency of my ASIO driver, the more out of sync they get.

Any ideas ?

I'm running an Echo Layla3G + Reason 3.04

D DAS · Post by **D DAS** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:31 am

someone else i am sure can explain why,

but i know this happens, adonis knows i think. say your recording audio loops from redrum it will be a few mili seconds off and you need to warp it a bit. lame .

there is no fix that i am aware of

Synthbuilder · Post by **Synthbuilder** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:52 am

Short answer:

Use Reason's own sequencer to control Reason instruments, or don't use PDC or VSTs in Live.

Long and complex answer:

This I how I see it, but I could be wrong. Live delays the audio signal from Reason to Live. It does this to allow itself to compensate for the audio delay incurred by the various user set track delays and the PDC values from the various VSTi used.

To compensate for this delay in Reason's output, Live syncs Reason to an internal track counter running in front of Live's own track counter. This means that Reason is actually always playing internally ahead of the beat. You can see this on the VU meters of the Reason rack which show the audio signal before you get to hear it. The leading Reason audio output, when delayed by Live's rewire input stage, results in the two applications being in step with each other. In other words, the pre-delay in the Reason track counter and the delay in Live's input channels cancel each other out. Clever? Well sort of.

However, the problem is that any midi played into Reason via its own inputs, or via Live's internal rewire'd midi interconnects, results in audio that is also being delayed too. This cannot be compensated for since you can't send midi data before its actually been created.

So it is not the midi that is being delayed, which is what it seems at first, but the resultant output to Live.

What is needed, is for the midi output fed to Live to be pre-delayed so that Reason can play Live clips back in time. However, this isn't that practical since the amount of PDC is variable on the project settings, ie. the track delays and other compensation values. So if you change a setting in a VST device, you would need to change all the track delays to the Reason instruments. This should be done automatically by Live but isn't.

You can work around this partly by making the rewire inputs pre-delayed by more than the highest PDC value. Since you don't know what this is, try using something like -250mS. Reason and Live should now play in sync... but any Reason driven instruments like the Matrix and self playing Redrums will be out of step by 250mS.

soundpalace · Post by **soundpalace** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:20 pm

Thank you both so much for your help. This is a pretty huge flaw that I never knew about. I appreciate you clearing it all up for me

sgx · Post by **sgx** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:45 pm

Yeah it sucks...I only start to notice it when CPU use gets heavy though.

soundpalace · Post by **soundpalace** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:50 am

bump this for Ableton developers, can this be fixed ?

dhilsabeck · Post by **dhilsabeck** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:33 pm

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:39 am

Hi,

We are currently working on resolving the latency when using Live sequencer with Rewire devices, but I can't tell when that will be implemented.

Just to let you know it is worked on.

Kind regards,
Amaury

drez · Post by **drez** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:40 pm

Amaury wrote:Hi,

We are currently working on resolving the latency when using Live sequencer with Rewire devices, but I can't tell when that will be implemented.

Just to let you know it is worked on.

Kind regards,
Amaury

On behalf of all Rewire users,...

THANK YOU!

That simple dialog means alot to us.

/drez

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:07 pm

drez wrote:On behalf of all Rewire users...THANK YOU!

Yeah thanks. I am glad that ableton are aware of the Rewire issues and looking forward to being able to use rewire when it is fixed.
Cheers.

dhilsabeck · Post by **dhilsabeck** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:24 pm

kineticUk wrote:
drez wrote:On behalf of all Rewire users...THANK YOU!
Yeah thanks. I am glad that ableton are aware of the Rewire issues and looking forward to being able to use rewire when it is fixed.
Cheers.

cheers amaury!

soundpalace · Post by **soundpalace** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:50 am

This is great news, Ableton's Rewire is second to none in most aspects and this big bug is the only thing holding it back from being the best implementation.

Please try to fix this as soon as you can, it's a major flaw and makes ReWire unusable for people using Ableton's sequencer with VSTis and Rewire devices.

Cyberstar · Post by **Cyberstar** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:08 am

Amaury wrote:Hi,

We are currently working on resolving the latency when using Live sequencer with Rewire devices, but I can't tell when that will be implemented.

Just to let you know it is worked on.

Kind regards,
Amaury

Very glad to hear this

soundpalace · Post by **soundpalace** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:05 am

Bump, how's this one going ?

soundpalace · Post by **soundpalace** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:02 am

Just another little bump, any joy with this one ?