The Mysterious Panning Law

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:22 am

Jeroen wrote:Just for my understanding as well. Suppose I have a center signal that is just below clipping level and I pan that to one of the extremes the signal is clipped?

J

no, because if you pan right then left is turned down

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:20 pm

uhm, actually, if the law is really +3 on the edges rather than -3 in the middle, it will go over zero if panned extreme right or left and the signal is -2.999999999999 (read this in the Ali G voice) or hotter. However, this isn't a big deal on an individual track so long as you keep the master green.

.lm.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:01 pm

of course,
for some reason I was thinking of the total gain of the summed stereo channels. hmm, not realistic.

what, you guys don't work in mono?
amateurs!

laird · Post by **laird** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:29 pm

Live has no mono tracks!

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:40 pm

laird wrote:Live has no mono tracks!

Live has a utility plugin!

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:50 pm

And thank god for it

laird · Post by **laird** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:07 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
laird wrote:Live has no mono tracks!
Live has a utility plugin!

yeah, and Live can also record mono tracks...

but duplicating audio from one channel to the other isn't really the same as mono, isn't that why we're getting into all this fuss?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:05 pm

laird wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
laird wrote:Live has no mono tracks!
Live has a utility plugin!
yeah, and Live can also record mono tracks...

but duplicating audio from one channel to the other isn't really the same as mono, isn't that why we're getting into all this fuss?

How isn't duplicating audio from one channel to the other mono? the way I see it you're presented with stereo metering and stereo waveforms but that doesn't make it stereo. Interesting topic, I love it when simple stuff gets complicated.

laird · Post by **laird** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:48 pm

Well, OK, maybe it is the essentially the same... i think some of the confusion that led to this thread was perhaps people using "mono" to refer to both 1-channel audio and dual-channel mono-signal audio?

I think Live is a little different from other DAWs or hardware, which usually decrease the center panned audio by -3dB while leaving the extreme pans untouched.

http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?storyCode=7672

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:42 pm

I like the quote

Personally, I go for the tried-and-true “-3dB down in the center” option. I designed analog mixers to have that response, and so I’m more than happy to continue that tradition within the virtual world of sequencer hosts. Also, this is one option that just about every host provides

just about all of them.
apart from
*cough*

'idiosyncratic' in every way

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:43 pm

this distinction always confuses me, because i have single channel outboard equipment i like to use, i'm never sure if in live this means i have to "pan" a "mono" signal to one or extreme or the other so it will all be on the same channel, or can instead just leave it centered (because the two channels of the "mono" signal are the same). i go with the latter, cause i'm lazy.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:05 am

Angstrom wrote:I like the quote

Personally, I go for the tried-and-true “-3dB down in the center” option. I designed analog mixers to have that response, and so I’m more than happy to continue that tradition within the virtual world of sequencer hosts. Also, this is one option that just about every host provides
just about all of them.
apart from
*cough*

'idiosyncratic' in every way

Do the other ones have company reps describing in detail how their software works?? Broken is one thing, but if you know HOW your tool works, even if it's odd, that's not broken, IMO. Then again, I'm annoying with workarounds and whatnots.

corygilbert · Post by **corygilbert** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:13 am

mikemc wrote:the idea is to keep the relative loudness vis a vis your mix the same, while establishing the 'positioning' of the item. the long and short is that you *might* have to adjust your fader overall slightly if you pan something.

Undoubtedly, real men (like Robert Henke) are aware of this reality and are called upon by their audio-aesthetic sensibilities to do this every day, wielding mighty knobs, vast faders and even huge mice, moving them in accord with this sacred duty, despite the burdensome toil.

good job mike, this is why i like (although the warping algo seems a little "loose" in live, I continue to work with with live for all of my mixes.
simple, obvious stuff like this, although there should be a discussion about possible better methods, should be appreciated with live, along with the obvious amazing qualities of Ableton.
i look forward to what others comment on this thread.
thanks Robert!

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:54 am

If you pan something from another position, whether from center or the other side, you will always end up adjusting the fader.
There is no law to understand. Pan, tweak level, listen.