Session clips with 2 envelopes: 1 relative, 1 absolute

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astar
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:52 am
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada

Session clips with 2 envelopes: 1 relative, 1 absolute

Post by astar » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:53 am

I know this has been discussed enough, but here's my 2 cents to continue beating a (hopefully) undead horse. :wink:

The easiest way to allow CC recording in session clips is by simply adding a new "absolute" envelope type to clips. This would NOT mean getting rid of the relative clip envelopes, they should definitely stay the way they are, IMHO (I enjoy having them because I can use them like an LFO).

Instead these new absolute clip envelopes would co-exist and interact with the relative clip envelopes, much like arrange view does to them already. So when clips are triggered in session view, their relative clip envelopes would follow these absolute clip envelopes.

The absolute clip envelopes could become arrange view automation when clips are dragged from session to arrange or when recording a session to arrange view. Also to promote backwards compatibility, you could have the option to turn on or off the absolute clip envelopes. This way when loading an old live clip or set that did not support these envelopes, you could simply default to having them turned off.

Anyway, to wrap this up my point is, if we ever get CC recording and absolute values in session view, I don't want to see relative envelopes disappear, and I don't want an option in preferences to switch between the two. We should have both at the same time :) They can co-exist!
Asus A8JS, Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 2GHz, 2GB DDR2 667Mhz, 100GB 5400RPM SATA, Echo Indigo IOX, Windows XP SP3, Live 8.0.5

kineticUk
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Post by kineticUk » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:06 am

Why have they not added this yet ?
Anyway I think you are right and it would make a huge difference to Live.
Good idea +1
MacBook MacOS Live 9.7.1 Max for Live Push Logic

forge
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Post by forge » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:34 am

By George I think he's got it! :idea: :D

astar
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:52 am
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada

Post by astar » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:24 am

I think I"m getting close... :) But when you think about it, it's definitely a LOT harder than some people might realize to implement session view CC Recording...

A challenge with my suggestion is that for clips with controls that already have values/curves in the absolute clip envelopes, what happens if a user decides to start tweaking these controls while the clip is playing? It could be difficult to implement how the user's tweaking overrides these looping clip envelopes.

And what ends up getting recorded in arrange view when recording a session jam that involves a mix of pre-recorded absolute clip envelopes and live knob tweaking? Would the curve that is already in the clip's absolute envelopes be recorded, or the tweaking done by the user while jamming with the clips? Ideally, there would need to be a way for the user to either completely override the envelopes or partially override them with some kind of soft-take over.

If we can keep brainstorming about this productively instead of just saying why haven't they added it, it's so easy to add, etc. etc.... then maybe the Abletons will listen!

cheers,
astar
Asus A8JS, Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 2GHz, 2GB DDR2 667Mhz, 100GB 5400RPM SATA, Echo Indigo IOX, Windows XP SP3, Live 8.0.5

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