Quite dissapointed to Sampler

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:54 pm

FaX-01 wrote: LFO's / Aux Envelope / Mod Matrix can modulate sample start via mod wheel / velocity etc etc .
Oh and every parameter I've seen on the thing so far maps via midi learn to my UC16's also and i mean EVERY parameter including things like crossfade amount , sample start / end , reverse etc etc etc....

so you can assign CC 127 to sample or loop start ? Because I certainly can't

I can see that I can assign key, velocity, rel-velocity, chan-press, mod wheel and p-bend in the midi tab - but they are all fixed selections,I cant decide to map a CC or a macro control. Very unusual considering the new rack flexibility.

RE: SJ timestretch preset
Also - not sure if its me, but I tried this preset - replaced the missing sample and hit a key - but the sample simply played then ended. Nothing .

I took a look at the LFO2 - it is mapped to sample offset - yet nothing happens. SOmeone else try this preset and see if it works for them - it obviously does for SJ

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:56 pm

john gordon wrote:funny.i was just going to ask how to run different zones through different filters etc.i guess you cant.what a bummer.

Nope but here's three Samplers 5 % CPU with one delay no EQ or compression doing FM mod on a stretched snare for a pad drone , modulating sample loops points on a resampled impulse loop and using the new note length parameter with sample modulation on multiple key zoned loop points of the same sample loop.
Pitch /FM ...loop modulation etc used a fair bit.
No clip envelopes or live tweak automation all tempo synced envelopes and lfo / velocity mods.

Only 33 seconds long and just one instance of the Abe's basic delay unit.

here's the link - http://covops.dreamhosters.com/dropbox/ ... %20Fun.wav

Thanks for hosting Machinate :D.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:57 pm

it was seeming to me that the sample offset modulation was only effecting each time the sample was triggered, instead of modulating _during_ the playback of the sample.

am I wrong?

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:57 pm

i agree, i was surprised when i realised that you can't have different envelope for each sample.
but then, that made me happy because that means i'm not going to ditch kontakt...

anyway, this limitation is also what makes sampler a different instrument, in a kind of "less is more" way...

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:04 pm

INCASE YOU MISSED IT (QUICK EXAMPLE) 33 second audio trinket.

Here's three Samplers 5 % CPU with one delay no EQ or compression doing FM mod on a stretched snare for a pad drone , modulating sample loops points on a resampled impulse loop and using the new note length parameter with sample modulation on multiple key zoned loop points of the same sample loop.
No clip envelopes or live tweak automation all tempo synced envelopes and lfo / velocity mods.

Only 33 seconds long and just one instance of the Abe's basic delay unit.

here's the link - http://covops.dreamhosters.com/dropbox/ ... %20Fun.wav

(right click save target as)

Thanks for hosting Machinate :D

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:22 pm

I was going to ask how it compares to the Vember Audio ShortCircuit sampler...

but no need, although it looks wicked for sample mangling, for recycled drums and multimaps with different envs + fx for different keys looks like its still the one to go for.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:27 pm

indeed, I have got some very nice granular sounds out of it but I certainly cant map "every parameter I've seen" as I cant map CCs to the start or loop.

technically BTW that example is granular rather than FM- the LFOs dont really go fast enough to drive the sample into FM so dont anyone expect this thing to do FM. because it doesnt.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:33 pm

Angstrom wrote:indeed, I have got some very nice granular sounds out of it but I certainly cant map "every parameter I've seen" as I cant map CCs to the start or loop.

technically BTW that example is granular rather than FM- the LFOs dont really go fast enough to drive the sample into FM so dont anyone expect this thing to do FM. because it doesnt.

What does the OSC FM/AM do then?

john gordon · Post by **john gordon** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:35 pm

FaX-01 wrote:
john gordon wrote:funny.i was just going to ask how to run different zones through different filters etc.i guess you cant.what a bummer.

Nope but here's three Samplers 5 % CPU with one delay no EQ or compression doing FM mod on a stretched snare for a pad drone , modulating sample loops points on a resampled impulse loop and using the new note length parameter with sample modulation on multiple key zoned loop points of the same sample loop.
Pitch /FM ...loop modulation etc used a fair bit.
No clip envelopes or live tweak automation all tempo synced envelopes and lfo / velocity mods.

do you think you could post that abl.file for me.i have the beta
Only 33 seconds long and just one instance of the Abe's basic delay unit.

here's the link - http://covops.dreamhosters.com/dropbox/ ... %20Fun.wav

Thanks for hosting Machinate .

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:50 pm

Angstrom wrote:indeed, I have got some very nice granular sounds out of it but I certainly cant map "every parameter I've seen" as I cant map CCs to the start or loop.

technically BTW that example is granular rather than FM- the LFOs dont really go fast enough to drive the sample into FM so dont anyone expect this thing to do FM. because it doesnt.

You don't use the LFO's for FM/AM.
Go too the Pitch section where there are dedicated FM/AM controls and waveforms with fixed or modulated ratio's etc for example.
Try using some sine samples and the FM/AM modulators.
It sure sounds like FM to these ears.

Goto PITCH TAB - Turn OSC on and you have the FM/AM envelope with FM/AM modulation and oscillators for FM/AM of samples.

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:51 pm

obsolete post

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:00 pm

Poster wrote:
peeddrroo wrote:anyway, this limitation is also what makes sampler a different instrument, in a kind of "less is more" way...
hhmm..
I was rather thinking about "less is less"

I was soooooooooooo enthousiastic about Sampler when first presented;
fantastic concept, great looks and integration..
and it makes a fantastic beat machine as well..

*dark clouds coming over*

but this afternoon I discovered the 'global parameter issue'..

what!?

a company as visionair as Ableton presenting us a sampler without solo zone editing?
what did them make that decision?
to be different?
this doesn't match with their reputation..

usebility/creativity drops with 200% i.m.h.o.

yeah, I know the workarround..

It's not a workaround. It's not like you're handling multiple vst's.
You're handling mulitple integrated devices. Which makes a stack of Samplers one device with a lot of options.
The key/velocity mapping is handled by the instrument rack that contains multiple devices.
Which can be ANYTHING. You can add impulse devices for choke groups, Simpler's for pitched percussion, operator/sampler with the sounds you created...
You can have individual effects for each device. Which also may contain a rack that responds to key/velocity....

It's not a workaround. It's the new way of working

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:10 pm

FaX-01 wrote:
Angstrom wrote:indeed, I have got some very nice granular sounds out of it but I certainly cant map "every parameter I've seen" as I cant map CCs to the start or loop.

technically BTW that example is granular rather than FM- the LFOs dont really go fast enough to drive the sample into FM so dont anyone expect this thing to do FM. because it doesnt.

You don't use the LFO's for FM/AM.
Go too the Pitch section where there are dedicated FM/AM controls and waveforms with fixed or modulated ratio's etc for example.
Try using some sine samples and the FM/AM modulators.
It sure sounds like FM to these ears.

Goto PITCH TAB - Turn OSC on and you have the FM/AM envelope with FM/AM modulation and oscillators for FM/AM of samples.

aha, I was too busy tryingto map sample start to look properly - doh

OK, it does fm and am then!

@H2k
perhaps the CC mapping is coming in a later beta then - it seems very odd the way they have handled the mapping currently.

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:11 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
Poster wrote:
peeddrroo wrote:anyway, this limitation is also what makes sampler a different instrument, in a kind of "less is more" way...
hhmm..
I was rather thinking about "less is less"

I was soooooooooooo enthousiastic about Sampler when first presented;
fantastic concept, great looks and integration..
and it makes a fantastic beat machine as well..

*dark clouds coming over*

but this afternoon I discovered the 'global parameter issue'..

what!?

a company as visionair as Ableton presenting us a sampler without solo zone editing?
what did them make that decision?
to be different?
this doesn't match with their reputation..

usebility/creativity drops with 200% i.m.h.o.

yeah, I know the workarround..
It's not a workaround. It's not like you're handling multiple vst's.
You're handling mulitple integrated devices. Which makes a stack of Samplers one device with a lot of options.
The key/velocity mapping is handled by the instrument rack that contains multiple devices.
Which can be ANYTHING. You can add impulse devices for choke groups, Simpler's for pitched percussion, operator/sampler with the sounds you created...
You can have individual effects for each device. Which also may contain a rack that responds to key/velocity....

It's not a workaround. It's the new way of working

I know what the stacked macro's can offer, trust me, Reason Combinator give's me loads of pleasure, but you cannot tell me that you have not thought about a split second why there's no solo zone editing..

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:24 pm

The reason why I was a bit dissappointed is that I thought stacking up 5 Samplers would eat all my cpu and therefore it would be a not so nice workarround..
Now I see that is not!!

too quick with my judgment