Quite dissapointed to Sampler

[deva]

I like the racks approach. What I would like to see is the possibility to select the 8 samplers (You can select multiple chains) and edit them enmass, or to do things like link one Sampler as slave to another.

Using multiple Samplers in racks is ultimately more flexible than what you are asking for. And I think with some refinements, not more difficult to use.

I think it is just as elegant as having to add 8 tracks to be able to do it in 1 rack

i agree, but it is dificult to understand that such system could run complex akai programs! So if you need your akai programs, would you need another sampler?

Not saying I need it, just curious..

If you open an akai program with lots of different settings on eack sample in say a drum kit, would you then end up with like 20 simplers in the rack? That starts to sound cluttered, but im not a beta tester so I dont know how it would be..

If you have another sampler that can have 20 different settings for 20 different samples, then it is 20 different samplers behind the scenes. It is only a matter of interface.

Same with multi-timbral synths. These days there is not much difference between that and multiple instances of a synth.

With Sampler, I would want to have some way to set common parameters at once, or link them in the 20 instances. Other than that, 20 Samplers in the rack is not particularly scary looking. You can use keystrokes to scroll between them for editing

There may be some factors I am not seeing, but it seems this issue is as much a matter of perception than anything else. That is assuming Ableton can write a translator to import libraries into multi-Sampler racks. Whether that is possible, I have no idea.

[ze2be]

With Sampler, I would want to have some way to set common parameters at once, or link them in the 20 instances. Other than that, 20 Samplers in the rack is not particularly scary looking. You can use keystrokes to scroll between them for editing

There may be some factors I am not seeing, but it seems this issue is as much a matter of perception than anything else. That is assuming Ableton can write a translator to import libraries into multi-Sampler racks. Whether that is possible, I have no idea.

Yeah, ill see when I get to demo it.. Just trying to figure out what the lucky beta bastrds have figured out!!

Indeed I like the rack concept, and also the fact that sampler is integrated with the interface looks, and midi mapping. Id love to see the midi mapping on top of 3rd party vst interfaces though, since live is limited to 128 from the drop down menu on the vsts.

[Machinesworking]

Once again, Racks are not a feature of Sampler. ANY sampler used in Live can be used in a rack. Racks come with Live 6, and any plug in or FX, VST or AU can use them.

CPU light and Operator.... respectfully disagree, on mac at least, the FM7 from NI is far less CPU intensive, with it's built in FX on even.

Love Live, not impressed with the built in instruments..... especially at the price points they sit at.

[forge]

Once again, Racks are not a feature of Sampler. ANY sampler used in Live can be used in a rack. Racks come with Live 6, and any plug in or FX, VST or AU can use them.

CPU light and Operator.... respectfully disagree, on mac at least, the FM7 from NI is far less CPU intensive, with it's built in FX on even.

Love Live, not impressed with the built in instruments..... especially at the price points they sit at.

no it's not that the racks are a feature of the sampler - it's that the sampler was built taking them into consideration while the likes of Kontakt etc definitely werent

regarding Operator - it totally depends what it's doing - like I said I built a rack of 20 operators to make a drum synth and it is very CPU light - because all of them are using only one oscilator - but it still sounds like and awesome drum synth

Likewise - last night I took that operator rack and started jamming some beats with it, then when I was ready fro some synth lines I fired up sampler with som mad ass resynthesis thing going on - I'm going to upload what I did when I've tweaked it a little more because it really spun me out the sounds i was getting out of it - it REALLY sounded like a shit hot synth more than a sampler - it's like operator that uses a sample as the carrier

all the track had in it was the operator rack and 2 samplers doing similar things to different samples but not at the same time because they were both such prominent features you couldnt put them together, then live's on board FX and the Glitch plug-in was the only external thing - and that's all it had and all it needed

seriously you cant compare Sampler to Kontakt etc because it is more of a sampler/synth Hybrid and not the same thing at all - it's a unique animal designed to take into account what live does and doesnt already have, and not to copy or even replace things like Kontakt etc or run standalone - it's meant to be used with live

I think the only mistake ABleton maybe made was calling it "sampler" because it's meant everyone is expecting to be another Kontakt

[forge]

also I have to add - the waveform I used in sampler was from Robert Henkes waveform generator thingy - just getting those into sampler and tweaking produces some amazing sounds

[glitchrock-buddha]

I am still on the fence about this sampler. The only things making me maybe want it is it's integration with live (and therefor stability also), simplicity, and drag and drop, which may well be enough to convince me o get it, but....

I have to agree with what machinesworking is saying. Racks will make any old 50$ sampler do great things, and it'll probably also have a few lfo's, mod routings and envelopes. They all do.

And People keep saying it's more of a synth/sampler hybrid than a sampler, but so are all samplers out there. Samplers as we know them are subtractice synthesizers using samples as oscillators. The only difference is the fm osc, which I haven't found to be that useful yet, but I'm still hoping it'll click.

If anyone makes a nice patch with heavy use of the fm osc with samples, I'd love to see it. If this is really that killer of a feature, then cool, maybe it is more of an fm synth/sampler, in which case maybe they should have called it sympler... but then that would probably get confused with simpler...

grb

[ze2be]

Once again, Racks are not a feature of Sampler. ANY sampler used in Live can be used in a rack. Racks come with Live 6, and any plug in or FX, VST or AU can use them.

CPU light and Operator.... respectfully disagree, on mac at least, the FM7 from NI is far less CPU intensive, with it's built in FX on even.

Love Live, not impressed with the built in instruments..... especially at the price points they sit at.

And once again, im just curious to figure out anything about the sampler, im also on the fence here. No one said racks was a future of the sampler! What im saying is like glitchrock-buda etc; the ability to drag and drop samples, the integrated interface w/midi mapping, and possibly akai reading in the future. Not trying to make it a kontakt, just trying to figure it out! ....aaaand (slightly ot) racksarecool

[deva]

Once again, Racks are not a feature of Sampler. ANY sampler used in Live can be used in a rack. Racks come with Live 6, and any plug in or FX, VST or AU can use them.

CPU light and Operator.... respectfully disagree, on mac at least, the FM7 from NI is far less CPU intensive, with it's built in FX on even.

Love Live, not impressed with the built in instruments..... especially at the price points they sit at.

Sure any Sampler could use racks. However, try using 3 Kontakts in a rack. You would have to open up the GUI for each one to do anything while Sampler is right there and you can switch between all 3 with a key stroke.

I am not sure if I'll be buying Sampler and I am not advocating that it is worth the money or it is great, just that I think the concept works and I like the approach of not trying to make Sampler standalone, but to make use of the Live environment, including racks as part of the instrument.

Ableton has also done a good job of integrating 3rd party plug-ins too, so if you have a 3rd party sampler that works better for you, of course use it. I'm interested in Sampler cause Kontakt doesn't do it for me as far as ease of use and workflow.

cheers

[Machinesworking]

Sure any Sampler could use racks. However, try using 3 Kontakts in a rack. You would have to open up the GUI for each one to do anything while Sampler is right there and you can switch between all 3 with a key stroke.

You can assign 16 instances of Kontact to a single GUI instance.

Ableton has also done a good job of integrating 3rd party plug-ins too, so if you have a 3rd party sampler that works better for you, of course use it. I'm interested in Sampler cause Kontakt doesn't do it for me as far as ease of use and workflow.

cheers

Kontact isn't the only sampler out there in competition with Sampler. Vsamp is extremely CPU light, easy, and $39.

Don't get me wrong, it's possible that Sampler somehow wins me over, but I don't think it's a crime to compare it to what's out there, and weigh your options without thinking totally in terms of brand name loyalty.

[deva]

Sure any Sampler could use racks. However, try using 3 Kontakts in a rack. You would have to open up the GUI for each one to do anything while Sampler is right there and you can switch between all 3 with a key stroke.

You can assign 16 instances of Kontact to a single GUI instance.

true, but my point is that then those 3 instances would not each be on their own rack chain with separate effects.

Kontact isn't the only sampler out there in competition with Sampler. Vsamp is extremely CPU light, easy, and $39.

I compare to Kontakt cause that is what I have. I'll download the Vsamp demo. Thanks for the tip. It is possible that Sampler will win me over too, but it has not yet.

[synnack]

( imagine dramatic chords in b/g, and sonore US american radio speaker voice here:)

We dream of a world, where the source of a sound can be anything, and the organisation of these sounds is completely decoupled from the origin.
We dream of a world, where one can replace a Bassdrum by a Bassdrum, regardless of how it has been made.
We believe, that the concept of a multisampler as a host for drum sounds is a technical restriction of the past. The same goes for beat slicing. There must be better ways for this. We are working on it and once we found a good solution we will release it. Racks is a first step into our new world. We will collect experiences and we will refine.

And, yes. The fact that you cannot control sampe sstart, loop start and loop length in Sampler directly via MIDI or automation / clip envelopes is NOT part of a brilliant new concept, it is just not finished yet, and unfortunaltely i cannot even promise it will be in in 6.0. The only statement i can give here is, that i am also missing it like hell and will make sure it`s priority will remain high.....

Cheers, Robert

I don't have the Live8b5 beta available to check myself today... was this fixed in Live8? This discussion about being able to macro map sample start in Sampler is years old and as far as I recall, you still can't.

Not complaining, what we were given with Live8 is amazing. Just curious.

Can we midi/macro map sample start/end in sampler in Live 8?

[4ace]

I WANT Sampler BADLY.

The few short comings it has is what keeps me away

[jlgrimes]

I WANT Sampler BADLY.

The few short comings it has is what keeps me away

Yeah global only filters and envelopes makes Sampler pretty unusable for a lot of people.

You can do Racks but to me Racks makes things more messy. With that logic in Reason I could make a combinator of multiple NN19s to get NNXT's. Would be preferable in some cases and probably powerful, but for quick keymapping, i think that is the slow way out.

Sampler kind of reminds me of how the k2000 worked. You had to create drum layers to do multiple filters and what not, but I think they had amp envelopes at sample level but I really can't remember.

[glitchrock-buddha]

And, yes. The fact that you cannot control sampe sstart, loop start and loop length in Sampler directly via MIDI or automation / clip envelopes is NOT part of a brilliant new concept, it is just not finished yet, and unfortunaltely i cannot even promise it will be in in 6.0. The only statement i can give here is, that i am also missing it like hell and will make sure it`s priority will remain high.....

Cheers, Robert

I don't have the Live8b5 beta available to check myself today... was this fixed in Live8? This discussion about being able to macro map sample start in Sampler is years old and as far as I recall, you still can't.

Not complaining, what we were given with Live8 is amazing. Just curious.

Can we midi/macro map sample start/end in sampler in Live 8?

I guess sampler improvements didn't turn out to be such a priority after all. I was sure Live 7 would bring these changes to sampler. When it didn't, I was sure Live 8 would bring the missing features to sampler, but again it didn't. Live 8 added the new filter types (ladder and SVF) which is nice, but sampler is the biggest disappointment in terms of improvement (or lack thereof). It's just too bad because the biggest things it's missing are actually features of it's lesser siblings - impulse style timestretch and simpler style control of sampler start/loopstart/looplength.

The reason I care so much about sampler though, is because I do really like the interface and Live really can be the ultimate sampling program. I just think that it's main instrument sampler is so much less than it should be.