Live 6 controller Question > Recording CC in Session?

tripboxer · Post by **tripboxer** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:33 am

Angstrom wrote:
womoma wrote:I agree that session cc recording would be absolutly fantastic. Im no programmer but its hard to imagine it being a major deal to impliment.

Keep the pressure on, they do listen to their customers, dont they?
I would imagine it is actually quite hard to implement. Think of the way a relative looping envelope in session can be offset by one in arrange - thats the absolute/relative issue. Ableton designed the heirarchy of control that way - all your old songs sit on that heirarchy!

If/when they change it they must do it in a way that allows old songs to load OK!
The 'quick fixes' they have done in the past have not turned out so well (FOD goes absorelative in 5.0.2b3) Sorry guys - I still think you farked up on that one.

That's my worry. I don't think we'll be seeing it in L6, it's not the sort of thing you throw in at the last minute - it is like the chassis of the envelope system. It kind of underpins everything!

That's what Machinate was talking about at the Camp Ableton and as that was a long time ago I thought they would have it in place by now.

maybe i´m missing something, but why can´t they just record all cc-data in absolute values to the clips and all the "live-internal" paramaters relative?
it works for pitchbend, doesn´t it?

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:36 am

What??? They missed one of the most obvious features that has been left
begging since at least version3???

-Ben

deva · Post by **deva** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:43 am

Angstrom wrote:
If/when they change it they must do it in a way that allows old songs to load OK!
The 'quick fixes' they have done in the past have not turned out so well (FOD goes absorelative in 5.0.2b3) Sorry guys - I still think you farked up on that one.

I don't care if it can load old songs. Different versions of Live live happily next to each other. You want to open an old song? Use the old version. That is assuming it is some sort of stumbling block.

Well, vst instruments with midi learn avoid the problem... Give all the ableton devices their own midi learn system like vst's

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:20 pm

Angstrom wrote:
As you might guess I am a loop and itterate kind of guy, to me playing a riff then tweaking the controls was so obvious and intuitive that I assumed Live did it when I bought it. It seemed inconceivable not to. I was amazed when it didn't work.
I still am.

Same with me. How can they miss that.....

womoma · Post by **womoma** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:23 pm

is there a chance they are holding out on this on purpose?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:24 pm

you mean , they hate filter sweeps ?

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:14 am

back on topic:
i thought of it and i think i got a workaround.
i know that's not what you want, but still, it should work.
for that, you need to install midi-yoke and midi-ox if you're on a PC.
don't know the equivalent for mac.

do you want me to carry on or is that already too much hassle (which i understand)?

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:43 am

womoma wrote:is there a chance they are holding out on this on purpose?

They might want to do it right, as Robert has said, write it in as a part of a more thorough upgrade of Live's automation system.

Nobody knows, though.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:44 am

heh,
I know that one. Thanks - for some reason I was getting controller overwrites with that method, I would record a part in arrangement (yep!) then go back to do some subtle modulations and the dual path of my 'true' midi input and the 'duplicate' loopback would overwrite previous controllers with blankness !

it took me a while to sort that one out.

So I had the option of - every time I wanted to record in Arrange I turn preferences/ Midi / Loopback - track : off.
and when I wanted to record in session I would have to go in and set it to track:on

And if I ever forgot and loaded an old song up to edit a little... I would record over previous takes of automation .. and only notice after I had saved. So I stopped using that method!! I am too error prone to tempt fate that way.

Thanks for sparing the time though

womoma · Post by **womoma** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:45 am

knock yourself out.

itll only serve to demonstrate how convenient it would be to be able to record cc in session view in live.

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:48 am

I reckon they just dont know how to program it.

And I find that weird...

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:36 am

Machinate wrote:....the new-and-improved Angstrochinate (tm) Recording Mode would take longer than the development time of one upgrade - in this case 5-6.

imo that's not really a fair way to lay out the facts..
ok, it takes a longer time to develop but we are at v.6 now..

how long is long?
is it on top of the list?
this issue is still surrounded by fog..

i'am well aware that this cannot simply be implemented on the fly,
but at least take away the foggie atmosphere it is in right now by making an official statement about it's progression/plans etc.
I mean; there's a big difference between "don't expect such a feature till v6.1 or v.8.3"

I cannot have a look in Ableton's strategic kitchen but I have a gut feeling that at a certain critical decision moment, years ago, they sacrificed session recording in favor for other features or the global designplan.. And now that we're at v.6 it takes allot of time and effort to rewind to that certain moment..

We all do agree on the fact that session recording should be such an obvious ability. But if you look at Live's revolutionary concept, I suspect that there's alot of things going on that we all don't even know of because this wasn't left out to be on the 'to do' list..

So maybe (and this is pure speculation) Ableton doesn't make any statements beause they thereby admit they made a strange (read; other) decision by letting out this ability..

tripboxer · Post by **tripboxer** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:51 am

i have to ask again, because i don´t understand...

you can directly record pitchbend messages into clips, right? (in absolute values)
I know that pitchbend isn´t a cc, but that shouldn´t make any difference i guess...

you can manually draw cc-messages into clip-envelopes (also in absolute values)

so where is the problem with recording absolute cc-values into clips?

i don´t get it, please explain...

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:52 am

ker - bump.

hoffman2k wrote:
Angstrom wrote: .... "session clips:absolute controllers" .....
Well. If you want to make 100% sure that they hear you loud enough before they start on Live 7, start a bigass thread about it (or bump old ones) as soon as this Live 5/6 thing isn't keeping them busy around the clock.

Seriously. On this whole midi thing: you wont get my point untill you see it for yourself.
I hardly know how to describe it all.
It all looks pretty basic on paper. You hardly even notice a thing in Live...
But you can obviously feel it getting better.

On the subject of CC recording: Ableton has never been very clear on this subject.
It's a glaring omission, but i don't think they're leaving it out just to piss people off.
I'm still not ruling this feature as impossible, because we still have no midi map to try out.
But in (my) theory, recording knob movements (Midi, not mouse) should be possible with macro's.
So you can expect a bigass bug report being sent out to get some answers about that.

At the moment it's a bit hard to get solid answers, because some Abe's are in the states AFAIK.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:09 am

tripboxer wrote:i have to ask again, because i don´t understand...

you can directly record pitchbend messages into clips, right? (in absolute values)
I know that pitchbend isn´t a cc, but that shouldn´t make any difference i guess...

you can manually draw cc-messages into clip-envelopes (also in absolute values)

so where is the problem with recording absolute cc-values into clips?

i don´t get it, please explain...

you can record midi CC as well (mod wheel and controllers) so if you are PC you can do it right now with midi yoke

They have said it's pretty much the top of their list but they have found it far more difficult than you would expect