Doing it the Kid Beyond way

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:34 pm

I'm with yellow--it doesn't need to get ultra complicated with multi commands. Just cause Kid Beyond does it, doesn't mean you have to, or that it is necessary to loop with Live (and I still don't see/hear what he's doing that needs all of the "multiple" command, other than maybe predetermining his loop lenths so that he only hits the pedal at the beginning of the loop). My own personal motto for everything I do is K.I.S.S.--keep it simple stoopid.

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:01 pm

quandry wrote:I'm with yellow--it doesn't need to get ultra complicated with multi commands. Just cause Kid Beyond does it, doesn't mean you have to, or that it is necessary to loop with Live (and I still don't see/hear what he's doing that needs all of the "multiple" command, other than maybe predetermining his loop lenths so that he only hits the pedal at the beginning of the loop). My own personal motto for everything I do is K.I.S.S.--keep it simple stoopid.

I agree very much with that. If it works as I want, that is. I shall have a go at the MrYellow technique.

TheAnimal · Post by **TheAnimal** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:43 pm

quandry wrote:Thus, you could send multiple midi commands with one pedal press to accomplisj certain things. afaik, Kid was using midi ox and bomes to essentially use one midi command from his ground control pedal board to accomplish many things in Live (it appears he is now on a mac using a mac equavalent, probably midipipe and/or controlaid).

One more thing: With programs like MidiPipe programming and maintenance are much easier. Plus they have very useful debugging utilities like the AList.

Surreal · Post by **Surreal** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:39 pm

quandry wrote:There is a ton of info and people's personal setups on these forums for live looping. I think that everyone does stuff differently, so there's no one prescriptive way of doing it.

this is why i think there should abe a sticky where people outline and discuss their looping setups.

i have my trigger finger set up right now and kinda like it, the first column is to trigger the tracks, the second is to arm them the third column triggers scenes 1-4 the top 2 pads on the far right are up and down the 3rd down is play and the last is stop.

is there a way i can make ableton only allow one track to be armed at a time?

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:43 pm

Surreal wrote: is there a way i can make ableton only allow one track to be armed at a time?

not that I know of. I've posted this link a bunch, definitely check it out, it basically takes the whole record arm issue out of the picture by using creative routing...check it out, screenshot included:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:47 am

quandry wrote: I've posted this link a bunch, definitely check it out, it basically takes the whole record arm issue out of the picture by using creative routing...check it out, screenshot included:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Hey, I got it working well with audio! But im working with midi, and the picture is slightly different with that. I got it working to, yes but for instance everything you record in loop 2 gets recorded in loop 1s clip also. I have the vst synth on the "guitar" track, like the example in your link, and the loop tracks sends midi to it. Everything else is setup like the audio example.

Gues im realy tired now, its late. Ill continue the reserch tomorow!

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:23 am

Turn off overdub mode I believe.

So that new MIDI data isn't recorded when *playing* a clip.

-Ben

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:44 am

MrYellow wrote:Turn off overdub mode I believe.

So that new MIDI data isn't recorded when *playing* a clip.

-Ben

yeah, that^ and I get better results recording vsti loops as audio, not midi. Set the output of your midi/vsti track as an audio track, and set up the input of that audio track as the midi/vsti track, and record audio loops there.

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:57 pm

quandry wrote:
MrYellow wrote:Turn off overdub mode I believe.

So that new MIDI data isn't recorded when *playing* a clip.

-Ben
yeah, that^ and I get better results recording vsti loops as audio, not midi. Set the output of your midi/vsti track as an audio track, and set up the input of that audio track as the midi/vsti track, and record audio loops there.

Aha, ofcource! Thanks guys.

Well, quandry, I want to keep it midi, because part of the performance is tweeking the synth parameters while triggering different clips.

A workaround, and cpu saving could be to record audio clips with full/uneffected sound. And later use filter, fx, glitch fx etc on the clip. But then I cant randomise the note placements, or lenghts. Or actualy I could, but it would need a lot of FX, and thereby loose the reason to bounche to audio anyway. Its gonna use as much or more cpu, and the loop will be less editable.

Filters can work fine on an audio clip. But I also use a lot of osc pitch modulating lfos that I tweek live. And that only work with the real deal synth.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:46 pm

ze2be wrote:
Well, quandry, I want to keep it midi, because part of the performance is tweeking the synth parameters while triggering different clips...

word, try it out and see what happens, as I mentioned earlier, sometime recording loops of midi doesn't always achieve the desired results...

quandry wrote: One thing to note when recording midi loops--if you play parts that stretch across two measures (like pads) sometime recording midi loops can miss a whole chord. For instance, lets say you are recording a four measure loop, but on the fourth and final measure, you hit a chord on the second beat that you hold until the second beat of the first measure. If you try to record this as a midi loop live, your sound can get cut off sometimes. Overdub mode can help, but I haven't had the best of luck with midi looping in comparison to audio looping. I guess for me a lot of my synth loops have things like the above, with either chord stretching across the bar, or delays that build up some ambient sound etc. ymmv. If you are using external synths and samplers, it might be easier to record as audio (or both!).

Surreal · Post by **Surreal** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:13 pm

i had read the post a few times, but, because it was all theoretical at the time (i hadnt set up a controller yet), i didnt see any particular advantage, but turning off the monitoring solves the problem i have. thanks.

Surreal · Post by **Surreal** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:15 pm

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:16 pm

quandry wrote: One thing to note when recording midi loops--if you play parts that stretch across two measures (like pads) sometime recording midi loops can miss a whole chord. For instance, lets say you are recording a four measure loop, but on the fourth and final measure, you hit a chord on the second beat that you hold until the second beat of the first measure. If you try to record this as a midi loop live, your sound can get cut off sometimes. Overdub mode can help, but I haven't had the best of luck with midi looping in comparison to audio looping. I guess for me a lot of my synth loops have things like the above, with either chord stretching across the bar, or delays that build up some ambient sound etc. ymmv. If you are using external synths and samplers, it might be easier to record as audio (or both!).

Yeah, I guess I will do most of the midi loop recording in the studio, where I can edit the material. And stick to audio on stage.

But I could record audio clips from the midi clips live on stage, though. Kind of a midi version of KB.. That sounds more like the aproach to go with this.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:52 pm

ze2be wrote: Yeah, I guess I will do most of the midi loop recording in the studio, where I can edit the material. And stick to audio on stage.

But I could record audio clips from the midi clips live on stage, though. Kind of a midi version of KB.. That sounds more like the aproach to go with this.

and you could always record both at the same time (just turn off monitoring on the audio channel), or record a longer audio loop of you tweaking parameters on the midi in real time--with Live's routing, the possibilities are deep.

pieter · Post by **pieter** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:58 am

MrYellow wrote:No need for multiple commands.

The play/stop button for each track is assignable.
The up/down scene buttons.
The arm buttons...

Arm track 1
Arm track 2

Start recording track 1
Stop/Start playback track 1 (same footswitch)

Start recording track 2
Stop/Start playback track 2

Down

Start recording track 1
Stop/Start playback track 1

Start recording track 2
Stop/Start playback track 2

Down, rince, repeat.

What could be more simple?

-Ben

i've tried this, and seemed to work. thanks ben, i was getting lost in this (old) topic. but suddenly - i don't know why - i can't go from recording into loop playback with one click. i press the clip's launch button, and recording stops. the clip doesn't start immediately. maybe i've changed sthing to the settings, but i can't remember. i checked the manual (page 141) but no anser.