dragging parts or copy in arrange still appallingly slow

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:55 pm

OK let's make a petition and demand some explanation from Ableton instead of trying to guess what's wrong,

1) Do they acknowledge there's some problem ?
2) Are they working on it ?
3) any hopes of a cure ?

We need an answer, let's just create a thread and bump until they answer without going into speculations about IRQs and the texture of your mousepad that might influence the speed at which you drag and drop.

supster · Post by **supster** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:18 pm

Chris J wrote:OK let's make a petition and demand some explanation from Ableton instead of trying to guess what's wrong,

1) Do they acknowledge there's some problem ?
2) Are they working on it ?
3) any hopes of a cure ?

yes search on "poll lag arrrange view" - search all terms. read entire thread.

we are not so concerned about whether they are working on it at this point (im sure they are) and when its going to happen (very slim chance of anything before version 6, which is after the summer)

but more concerned about how effective the solution is going to be.

.

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Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:37 pm

hopes of a cure = effective solution ...

roby · Post by **roby** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:42 pm

forge wrote:Anyway, I have a feeling Live 6 will see some major overhaul to arrange - Robert at the Brisbane Live clinic mentioned how they were well aware of it's short comings and are keen to sort it out

Personally I think the automation in arrange is a pain in the arse too - really fiddly and not at all easy to get accurate - plus no constrain direction if you want to drag a breakpoint, no exact values - it could be ALOT better and Arrange was always the inferior - navigation is not brilliant by any stretch

Arrange is one of the biggest problems now so I think it will be largely sorted for 6

i totally agree 500%

Cache · Post by **Cache** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:40 pm

why are you sure this will be resolved in 6? the problem was bad in 4, got worse in 5.

no reason to think it will be fixed in 6.

the people who do not see this problem, prob are not running large enough sets.

if you're doing any sort of complex track (very subjective i know) then you will see the slowness.

it is not related to any USB issues, you will see the slowness with nothing plugged into your USB.

Supster - i would have thought that CTRL-D was a shortcut for CTRL-C,V
yet you say CTRL-D is to be avoided and has a tangible negative effect on performance?

I find once i start getting to the end of Lives performance when working in arrange mode, eg things are super slow to move around, then i just bite the bullet and bounce everything down, import into nuendo and go from there.....real pain in the ass. my desktop is 3.4GHz with 1.5GB RAM.

But an acknowledgment from Abes that they see/understand/are working to fix the problem would certainly make us feel more comfortable here.

supster · Post by **supster** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:48 pm

Cache wrote:why are you sure this will be resolved in 6? the problem was bad in 4, got worse in 5.

no reason to think it will be fixed in 6.

we think so because they are aware of the problem, and the problem is so severe they absolutely have to fix it

it took them a while to focus on the issue but now that they are i personally have faith that they are not going to give the marketplace a program that is only half functional

its suicide for thier business otherwise imo

Supster - i would have thought that CTRL-D was a shortcut for CTRL-C,V
yet you say CTRL-D is to be avoided and has a tangible negative effect on performance?

yes this is exactly the case on my system. i dont know why but it is. it coule be that in using CTRL-D you are asking it to do multiple operations in sequence and this compounds "whatever the buffering issue" is.

i say this because by using CTRL-C, there is definitley a lockup and wait while live chokes on the data. but once you have the clip copied and Live unlocks, you can paste as many clips as you want to with no lag, the paste is instant

a CTRL-D queues up the operations and if I try hit it multiple times in sucession, i might as well walk away watch some TV and come back in 5 or 10 minutes

Code: Select all

But an acknowledgment from Abes that they see/understand/are working to fix the problem would certainly make us feel more comfortable here.

they already have, there are threads going back on this a couple of years now and they discussed it at a user conference some months back

.

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forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:42 am

Cache wrote:why are you sure this will be resolved in 6? the problem was bad in 4, got worse in 5.

no reason to think it will be fixed in 6.

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also, 5 was about adding more functionality for people that wanted things like PDC, MP3 support and the ability to mix ALS sets - and when we were at "camp ableton" the only thing that we could get out of them was that 6 would be more about refining and smoothing - improving workflow - there will be new features for sure, but in their words there was a list of 5 hundred odd fixes to be implemented

so I think 6 will be alot about sorting out alot of these problems

not to think it will be a paid bugfix, more like an overhaul - but this is my interpretation they were pretty stumm about it

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:05 pm

Ok it's slow - I do the control loop thing and copy and paste section or duplicate parts

slow, I missed my bus this monring because it's so slow

ok

6 will be better watch

astar · Post by **astar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:42 pm

Here is the quote from Robert Henke back in November from this thread.
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29141

Robert Henke wrote:Hi everyone,
what you experience is not one single issue but a combination of a few things.
One part of the problem is in since the beginning of Live and is going to be improved in future versions. This causes the slowlyness in arranger once you have lots of edits and it has to do with the way we handle the arranger data internally.

There is a good chance that we can improve this significantly, but as long as we have not done it we will not promise anything. Because we do not want to raise expectations we maybe could not fullfill for reasons we do not know now.
But this does not mean we do not know or even experience the slowlyness ourselfs.

The second issue is a new bug and causes significant slowlyness even if you only have one single file in the arranger with some edits. We think we can reproduce this and we are confident that it will be fixed soon.

Improving the operaton speed and general GUI response has a high priority on our current schedule.

Robert Henke
Ableton

So at least there's hope...

supster · Post by **supster** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:14 pm

astar wrote:One part of the problem is in since the beginning of Live and is going to be improved in future versions. This causes the slowlyness in arranger once you have lots of edits and it has to do with the way we handle the arranger data internally.

yes this is what i have suspected for a long time and what i have been saying has to be addressed in order to get this thing working right.

so fingers crossed they have totally rethought this, re-coded it significantly from the ground up and we will be able to write and edit music freely again this fall

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forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:40 am

Chris J wrote:
longjohns wrote:word. well in the end all i'm saying is that i was getting cpu spikes and gui lockup when moving the cursor around (which seemed similar to some problems that others were having) and having my bcf disconnect all the time. it turned out that simply plugging my mouse into a different socket completely erased the problem.

someone who's having problems might want to fiddle with their connections.

you do not. there it is
the thing is if you're on a laptop, there are no PS2 plugs

just to update - I was using an unpowered 4 port USB hub - just for Mouse, extra keyboard, printer and cooler stand

I read this and it set my mind thinking so I unplugged it and now only ever use the onboard USB ports - unplug things to plug in others etc

SInce then live hasnt been crashing on me - I think it did once but I think I something else identifiable going on

Also, when playing the game Shrek 2 it used to have fits and slow right down now and then and be totally unresponsive whcih drove me and my 4 YO crazy - but since I unplugged the HUB we just played the whole game through and it didnt do it once

I havent had a chance to really test it in arrange - although I'm pretty sure it's not really better (maybe marginally) but I'll give it a good look at tonight

but as for the PC the HUB drained it hugely.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:29 pm

Never thought of that - all USB stuff is connected to the PC and my arrange view problems come and go

Right now it's pretty quick but last week it was really slow or I could be really high (syke, I'm not)

unusable · Post by **unusable** » Wed May 03, 2006 5:58 am

that'd be awesome if dis-connecting USB devices helps remedy this problem

I mean really....who uses USB devices and works on audio

I am very curious though on your findings, even through my thick sarcasim, and will find the time to test this myself and will drop back in after that

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed May 03, 2006 6:17 am

well for me it was the unpowered hub - so maybe it has to do with running more off it than it expects

there is a "USB root hub" in the hardware devices which seemed to say it would support up to 6 USB devices - then I guess it's also possible that my hub is dodgy

either way there is very definitely a difference now - but not really to the arrange dragging slowness - that is an in built problem that is waiting to be fixed by Ableton

ikke · Post by **ikke** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:34 pm

ive the same problem and i found a solution. solution: higher your audiocard latency! the lower the latency, the slower youll move clips. copying clips is ok but moving can take 20 minutes ... if your latency is too low
another workaround: consolidate as much as possible. the more different clips with different settings (warp, pitch, etc), the slower youll move clips. also, if you not consolidate, you ll move the entire file, which can be a 10 minute wav file. you should delete any sound you dont need by consolidating! and not with the ctrl+E command.
also render (consolidate again) every warped file and then disable warp on the new rendered wav, especially if you use complex warping!