looping Live... live

eagleton · Post by **eagleton** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:05 am

Hi,

I have 5 and a firewire 410 and I'm interested in being able to record external audio (bass, guitar, Keys) live, and have it loop.

Initially I just want to experiment at home with this technique, but ultimately would like to be able to do it on stage.

I'm assuming that it has something to do with using a (midi) footpedal of some kind to tell Live to stop recording and play, but then how would you tell certain loops to play, and then record others hands free?

I haven't been able to find much documentation on this, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

ben_blue · Post by **ben_blue** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:51 am

u need a controller, ala BCR2000, with many buttons u can assign things to. then maybe move on to using the feet after that?
but u need to get a feel for what does what, and the best way is with many buttons, not just a mouse...

example...

2 tracks, each has a stop, play, and record enable assigned to a button. you also have 2 seperate buttons to step up and down through the scenes (consult manual if unaware of what scenes are...).

one track has a guitar routed to it, the other a bass.
"firing" a clip, or pressing that track's play button, fires a clip if there is one, stops whatever clip is playing in that track if its an empty slot, and, finally, starts recording into that slot if the track was record enabled.

u use the scene up/down buttons to select a row, and the track's play button to fire or record.

so lets say you have an empty session view. record enable track 1, and fire a slot, and play a riff. press the track's stop button (which like each track's dedicated play/ stop button, is only visible in midi or key assign mode.)
now fire it.

now do the same for track 2 and u should be on your way.
hope that helps.

NationalSandwic · Post by **NationalSandwic** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:51 pm

hi eagleton and ben_blue

i loop live using live 5. i use a behringer fcb1010 (foot controller) to send midi notes to trigger certain actions.

there's a couple points here...

ben_blue, great tip on using the track play function and scene selection! that helps me loads!

however here's somthing: instead using one trigger to start RECORDing, another to STOP the clip recording, then retriggering it to PLAY, you can use the same trigger that you used to start RECORDing to do both...

ie... you arm your track using a note (let's say C3) then begin recording using another (D3).... you can use D3 to stop the clip recording, and then again to start it.... OR, if you simply disarm the track, the clip will stop recording and automatically begin looping.

i create a lot of 'loose' loops, which means i'm not fussed with meter and quantisation, so this technique works perfectly for me... however, depending on your timing abilities, you can create perfectly sync'd loops this way too...i have done it. it's not easy tho.

i'm going to post this question in the forum too, but if you've any advice re. remotely arming MULTIPLE tracks, please let me know... arming one track in Live 5 automatically disarms other tracks, unless you use the mouse to arm them while holding down Ctrl.

cheers
a

eagleton · Post by **eagleton** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:50 pm

Thank you both for your help. I'll have to start playing around!

scottfro · Post by **scottfro** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:32 pm

NationalSandwic wrote: i'm going to post this question in the forum too, but if you've any advice re. remotely arming MULTIPLE tracks, please let me know... arming one track in Live 5 automatically disarms other tracks, unless you use the mouse to arm them while holding down Ctrl.

cheers
a

i actually just was looking at this option last night. don't remember what it was called but in the options menu there is something about solo and about arming tracks with on/off options. one eliminated the arming issue you are talking about. hope that helps, i'm in the middle of trying to figure out how i want to start recording live loops into ableton myself.

Stefanator · Post by **Stefanator** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:15 am

I have been experimenting with live looping too. What I have been doing is just making a bunch of tracks and then arming them all. Then I have a foot controller "useing bome's" and I just have a button set to give the "Enter" key stroke command. This will start recording or stop it on a highlighted clip, and the clip will then loop on as I go to the next bit. I am thinking I could map the arrow keys to other pedel buttons and do it like that. It's rough but I am just trying to sort it out still.

One thing that I keep wondering about. IS there a way to have the tempo be set by the first loop I create? Right now I Have to play along with a click or some sort of loop that gives me the tempo cue. Thats not a horrible option but it could be a bit freeer if my first loop could set the tempo.

Any hints, greatly appreciated. Live realy is an awesome tool!

thanks

Stefan

scottfro · Post by **scottfro** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:29 am

Stefanator wrote:I have been experimenting with live looping too. What I have been doing is just making a bunch of tracks and then arming them all. Then I have a foot controller "useing bome's" and I just have a button set to give the "Enter" key stroke command. This will start recording or stop it on a highlighted clip, and the clip will then loop on as I go to the next bit. I am thinking I could map the arrow keys to other pedel buttons and do it like that. It's rough but I am just trying to sort it out still.

One thing that I keep wondering about. IS there a way to have the tempo be set by the first loop I create? Right now I Have to play along with a click or some sort of loop that gives me the tempo cue. Thats not a horrible option but it could be a bit freeer if my first loop could set the tempo.

Any hints, greatly appreciated. Live realy is an awesome tool!

thanks

Stefan

only option i can think of is tapping in the tempo as you record the first loop. but when people like kid beyond are doing it, he is making all the sounds with his mouth so the tempo is not relevant. only neccasary if you are using premade loops along with the live loops.

NationalSandwic · Post by **NationalSandwic** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:57 am

stefanator, i understand your problem...i have the same issue.

It's not easy, but if you turn quantisation off (set to "None") then you can loop regardless of project tempo/bar length/meter. But it requires that your triggering of record and play need to be precise, else the loops will quickly move out of sync. My rhythm's pretty solid, so i manage to do this 90% of the time; but most of the time isn't good enough, cos one bad loop destroys the whole effect!

tap tempo with quantisation does help, but you'll still need to be real tight...and i find it a bit restricting, cos i work with loops of unequal and odd lengths (ie...some are 4 counts.... some are 7 counts ... some are 3.5 counts).

if you can send your cue outputs to a different output than your master, then you can use the metronome live with a little earpiece or something and no one else will hear it.

(p.s. I don't understand why tempo would be 'irrelevant' because kid beyond's using his mouth...that makes no sense at all. his mouth is an intrument. like a guitar. or a drumkit. or anything else. as a matter of fact, tempo must be supremely important to kid beyond 'cos he makes beatbased music.)

wal · Post by **wal** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:02 am

ah yes, let the fun begin. i too am getting my feet wet as i read these posts. i play elasticated teflon ( like a horn ) and want to be able to do my syphonic thing. was always disappointed by using roland rc20. then i saw the kid beyond thing and new i had to get it together. wish there was a book that said " one man band looping " mac or pc. questions like : what are foot pedal hardware ops? bome or control aid.......etc.
right now i'm at the stage where i'm gathering the " chain of command hardware/software list to accomplish the task...then it's on to the programming. i've been performing live as a guitarist using my powerbook running guitar rig and a metric halo sound card into a 65 blackface fender deluxe...very happy with the results.

i started searching a week or so ago and got a response ........"The program in question is Midi Stroke.
And ControlAid for midi mapping. and was referred to this site .....http://www.charlie-roberts.com/controlAidForum/ .......i'm just tonite visiting the site to get a handle on how live...midistroke...and controlaid operate together ( what information tells what info. to do what?

i no that bome is for pc and controlaid ( i believe is for mac )

i'll offer this to fellow livelies.......i have the option to become a dealer of the ground control pedal and all that stuff from digital music corp...this is the controller used by the beyond. if anyone would like to do a one time purchase with me of a ground control GCX we could get them at cost and i have to buy one soon as i'm putting this thing together.

cheers,
wal

Doobie Dan · Post by **Doobie Dan** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:38 pm

Stefanator wrote:What I have been doing is just making a bunch of tracks and then arming them all.

Thanks Stefan, this tip has really helped me make the FCB1010 into a super-efficient live looping tool without having to use any of the nutty macro schemes floating around here. I'm using this for looping with a live band. One problem, though, is that the instruments that are ready to be recorded for looping at any given moment are constantly being routed through these armed tracks and being sent through the master out of Live. This makes their playing level too high, and worse, the playback of the recorded loops is always MUCH softer than the instrument currently being played. Turning up the master doesn't help because that turns up the live instruments as well.

Is there some way to keep the track armed without getting a "live monitor" from it? I'm using an M-Audio Firewire 1814 btw.

mouthster · Post by **mouthster** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:52 pm

Doobie Dan wrote:
Stefanator wrote:What I have been doing is just making a bunch of tracks and then arming them all.
Thanks Stefan, this tip has really helped me make the FCB1010 into a super-efficient live looping tool without having to use any of the nutty macro schemes floating around here. I'm using this for looping with a live band. One problem, though, is that the instruments that are ready to be recorded for looping at any given moment are constantly being routed through these armed tracks and being sent through the master out of Live. This makes their playing level too high, and worse, the playback of the recorded loops is always MUCH softer than the instrument currently being played. Turning up the master doesn't help because that turns up the live instruments as well.

Is there some way to keep the track armed without getting a "live monitor" from it? I'm using an M-Audio Firewire 1814 btw.

I do the same with an FCB1010. Each track has a In - Auto - Off mode. What I do is I set up one track and call it "Input" and make its monitor mode "On" . Then I set up about 8 other tracks, have all their input routed from my "Input" track, and all their monitor modes are set to "Off".

You will only hear audio from those tracks after you record a clip to it and play that clip back.

Doobie Dan · Post by **Doobie Dan** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:11 am

mouthster wrote:I do the same with an FCB1010. Each track has a In - Auto - Off mode. What I do is I set up one track and call it "Input" and make its monitor mode "On" . Then I set up about 8 other tracks, have all their input routed from my "Input" track, and all their monitor modes are set to "Off".

You will only hear audio from those tracks after you record a clip to it and play that clip back.

Wow, that worked perfectly. Thanks!

now_continue · Post by **now_continue** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:03 pm

Stefanator, how do you map the Enter key to MIDI? Can one map the delete key aswell?

hade · Post by **hade** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:10 pm

wal wrote:
i started searching a week or so ago and got a response ........"The program in question is Midi Stroke.
And ControlAid for midi mapping. and was referred to this site .....http://www.charlie-roberts.com/controlAidForum/ .......i'm just tonite visiting the site to get a handle on how live...midistroke...and controlaid operate together ( what information tells what info. to do what?

i no that bome is for pc and controlaid ( i believe is for mac )

Now_continue
That is what you'll need to map midi to key strokes and combo's..

now_continue · Post by **now_continue** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:11 pm

I tried Boms translator with Live but Live says that my midi device (a behringer bcr2000) is in use by another app and therefore cannot be activated. Ben_Blue, you seem to have the same setup as I do, how did you get around this?