SIDECHAIN trick from Gabriel & Dresden

[ar10003]

Its so simple I kicked myself. Its a tip from the international duo Gabriel & Dresden remixers for Britney, Madonna, Annie Lennox etc...

They don't call it sidechaining in the article (its not true sidechaingin after all), they refer to it as a 'ducking' technique to make sure the bassdrum takes dominant position in a track wich may otherwise clash with the bass line. sits well in a track with a dominant bass track. They call the plugin a tremelo plugin but actually its Abelton's autopan.

http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/pub/a/o ... tml?page=3

[DeadlyKungFu]

Cool... there's actually two good tips there (ducking tip is #2):

Gabriel's QuickTip #1: Turn Anything into Music with Envelopes

"Every program has things it can do easily that are a pain in others," says Josh Gabriel. "In Live 5, for instance, that special feature for me is using envelopes to take almost any sound and turn it into music. Start by bringing a loop into an audio track and, while it's playing, click the envelope button. That reveals the controls for the pitch and volume envelopes. Make sure Volume is selected, then use the pencil to draw your volume envelope. It's like digging away at a sound. Sometimes I'll just leave a small snippet of sound so the original source is hidden.

"Next, select Pitch. Using the pencil again, draw in a melody. (The height of the line represents the note.) Once you get the hang of it, you can get amazing results. As an experiment, try using tape hiss or room noise as an audio source. Compress it until it gets loud, then apply volume and pitch envelopes."


Gabriel's QuickTip #2: Taming Bass with a Duck

A common problem in making dance music is creating space in the mix for the kick drum. The bass is usually the guilty party, stealing energy from the kick. Here's how Gabriel brings it into line in Ableton Live. "Set up a kick drum at quarter-note intervals," he advises. "Now, put in a sustained low bass note. Notice how the bass and kick interact and clash.

"Next, open a tremolo plugin on the bass track. Set the rate to quarter-notes, the symmetry to 99%, the smoothing to 98%, and stereo phase to 0. Now, while listening, raise the tremolo depth slowly until the bass ducks away under the kick and the two feel good

[ejectorset]

i dunno, sometimes these tips make me think people are on (insert software company getting rave reviews from artist here)'s payroll.

i mean, his tips are shit. yes, the envelopes in live are great, but to try to make that a standout feature of the program when they pale in comparesion to almost any other program's envelopes, is crazy.
much better envelopes (you can use curves, see more than one envelope at a time on the same track, superimposed on the same waveform) are in pro tools, logic (even express) digital performer, heck even the really old version of sonar i used to use years ago.

now if he would have said something about the new awesome innovative feature ableton have added to the world of envelopes, then i would think he was for real. letting you unlink envelopes and run time on their own time base from the audio clip is so genius!!

also, if he really knew what he was talking about, he would realize he could use the same volume envelope he was touting before, on the bass, and with such a simple kick pattern, unlink it and only use 1 bar to duck the bass for the whole track. 4 clicks and he's done. even better, if he was using a more complicated beat, he could still duck the bass out of the kick's way. try that with a tremolo or auto-pan cutting gating the sound to do the duck.

he could duplicate the bass track and have a copy without the vol envelope for anytime he needs to use the bass when the kick isn't playing.

so much more powerful then the way he is saying he does it.

it just seems like people haven't really dug in and have no idea of what the software is capable of.

[ar10003]

I wouldnt say the tips are shit or they don't know what they're doing - little harsh. They're pros after all. You Texan's need to chill a little

I guess there are many more advanced features in other software titles but ableton's real strength is speed and liquid audio. Its allows people to concentrate on being creative musically rather than fiddling with settings, types of envelopes etc. His point is you can really get into the sound and mangle it quickly - you'd find that hard in other DAWS.

IMO the ducking trick is much easier than envelop drawing, for one you can play around with the settings to tweak on the fly. If you don't want it when theres a drum break you turn it off! If there's a diffeerent drum sequence you add another panner with different speed settings and turn that on when you need it. I also like the way you can find new uses for existing plugs. I tried the trick out and compeltey helped on a mashup i'm working on.

[djsynchro]

They call the plugin a tremelo plugin but actually its Abelton's autopan.

I think it's Logic's Tremolo they're referring to but yes it can be done with Autopan. The ramp (sawtooth) wave is really good because it generates shapes similar to a synth envelope.

They are very good tips, thanks for posting!

[ejectorset]

maybe i was unclear, i wasn't trying to say they aren't pros.

just that those two tips seem more like "endorsed feature mentions", than true tips from someone that really uses and knows the product. it happens a lot when you read "tips" from big artists. he may use it live, but he doesnt use it for production, he even says so.

he already said he does his recording and arranging in logic earlier in the same article.

his tip about the tremolo sounds as much like it is describing logic's built in tremolo plug than ableton's auto pan.

from earlier pages of his article i can tell you that he is already aware of how capable logic's envelopes are from a sound design and mixing stand point too.

the tips seem forced to me, not geniuine. had he only said how useful live is to him for dj'ing or playing live i would believe it. but to try to say he is thinking of moving his recording process over to live from logic, and backing that up with tips about features that are better in logic anyways, seems weird.

had he said how much quicker and easier and direct the workflow and routing is in live, i would totally think he was for real.
i use both, and i can understand that one, because as much as i would like to just use logic, live is so much faster for me to record and make basic arrangements with. a lot faster.

[smog g]

this only works with a kick drum at quarter-note intervals.
come on!
who is still making such primitive rythms for the braindead?
breakbeat is the key!

[ejectorset]

and with breakbeat you could use vol envelopes on the bass clip to duck the kicks. that was my point, he tips are like halfway there. if he likes the envelopes so much, he would realize they are a much more verstile way to do something like that.

[mike holiday]

this only works with a kick drum at quarter-note intervals.
come on!
who is still making such primitive rythms for the braindead?
breakbeat is the key!

i do


besides how much more exciting is a 2, 4 snare then a 4, 4 kick?

[timothyallan]

I love four on the floor stuff!

[jbible]

Why not just use a sidechain compressor to duck to the actual kickdrum? This way your ducking automatically follows your kick pattern whatever style it might be.

[ejectorset]

Why not just use a sidechain compressor to duck to the actual kickdrum? This way your ducking automatically follows your kick pattern whatever style it might be.

Because "the pro's" said to do it this way of course.

[jbible]

If being "pro" means you imitate sounds from the underground for giant pop stars so they can pretend its thier own sound...then yes I guess you could call those guys pro's.

[Inductive]

you dont have to be good to be pro, just paid. something to keep in mind.

:)