live techno sucks - discuss (please, this is not a troll!)

diesel23 · Post by **diesel23** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:40 pm

Hi all, very interesting thread. I do live techno myself on hardware presently, Rm1x, Esx1, Jomox X-Base + Fx. I now intend to incorporate Ableton into my setup for live use.
Below are links to a couple videos of artists using Ableton Live alongside hardware in a totally live environment.

The first is Arkam (Systematek) using a Korg Mx1, Ableton (laptop), BCR controller (i think) and a dj mixer.

http://www.aopclan.com/diesel/Video/Liv ... 005%20.avi

The second is the above mentioned Crystal Distortion Vs Rokette (Heretik).
Crystal Distortion is using Ableton on a laptop and midi control keyboard. And Rokette using FL on a PC and a midi controller. This was a Vs set where they are playing tracks alternatively.

http://www.aopclan.com/diesel/Video/Liv ... Mi-K-L.avi

pax · Post by **pax** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:21 pm

I didn't browse through all five pages of this post, just the 1st, 4th, and 5th... So if it has already been said:

Kim Hiorthoy is really good live.

Nathan Fake at I Love Techno 2005 was pretty sweet.
I'm pretty he designed all the tracks in Cubase and imported audio files in to Live where he did a lot of live tweaking. You can find his set on Livesets.com

No matter what you do it's going to sound a little more 'raw' than a mastered track is going to sound.

suburbanbather · Post by **suburbanbather** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:26 pm

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

GaryTracks · Post by **GaryTracks** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:55 am

Inspiring remider that I am not alone but that I am rare, thus far, in my mission of live dance music. (how rare I would love to know, and am gonna find out).

First off, two words: HUMAN VOICE. Ok, two more words: REALTIME PERCUSSION. One more: ABLETON.

Yes, it’s about the DANCE. (A brilliant post by ANGSTROM, earlier). When I drum in a drumming circle, I can intricately weave the beat, moment to moment, to the subtleties of an inspiring goddess-body (or god-body) pulsing and responding…

In my last band, in ’04, we did realtime loops (no pre-made loops) from samplers, handsonics, and an Electrix Repeater. It was Fool-hardy! The sets were 100% improv, with vocals and instruments (synths, didge, and a guitar/bass/oud player.). The sets were also about 40% CRAP!! But people didn’t hear that, they heard the other 60%, because it had a quality of ALIVENESS. And made em’ dance.

I bought a G4 and Live back in July and….and….and…. yes it is taking a LOT of work to be ready for a show. And HOLY FUCK! The possibilities. THIS is the future of music.

And My point right now (hello Paddy! I’m workin’ on it) is this: It seems the worlds of MUSICIAN and DJ are fusing to a new level. For me it is to re-create a balance of what I love about rock n roll and jazz, with what I love about modern electronic dance music and dancing. Aside from the important shamanic aspect of the “DJ and the Dance’, to me, many of the various styles of electronica are the NEW JAZZ. Because it is the first INSTRUMENTAL form of music since jazz (except for New Age music). The key word is “instrumental”, because the music can stand on it’s own without the human voice. And the realtime aspect that Live is affording, gives it the imrov element that jass was all about. And yet it is giving us musicians the power of the shaman-DJ to combine with our personal style of musicianship. Even more so, when combined with the intimacy of the human voice.

So my new band is gonna be a different cookie. The beats are gonna be FAR more solid than the first band. It’ll be SO MUCH EASIER to do the house and techno and the reggae type beats with pre-made loops . my only concern is how much it will effect the PROGRAMMING of the set: in the last band, we could jump into any beat, tempo, or sound, loop it and go! Which fared well for staying in sync with the crowd.

Now I have to practice tap-tempoing to an external tempo, and see if Live likes comin’ in solid on top of that. Or else we will have to play to strictly pre-ordained stuff. I hope I can keep it alive this way. Hell! DJ’s do it!!

A comment to ELEMENTAL : good luck on your upcoming show. THREE YEARS!!!!! You’ve been preparing?? Whew, that’s a lot of work. Wish I could be there. My first gig will be in April in Harbin Hot Springs, CA. , which is where I live. There is a big dance culture here, so my audience is ready-made. If you’re reading this, I’d like to ask you about your terminology . What does the “-STEP” signify after dub and break? Also how are you defining “drops” versus “breakdowns” . are drops like the old “rub-a-dubs” with drum and the bass only? I will keep an eye out for how your gig goes. Peace.

p.s. the best live dance band I’ve seen yet was GANGA GIRI. They used Live, had a percussionist, a mixer, a voice, a didge, a dub bassist. Yeah!!

The second best, hot on the heels was our very own PITCH BLACK, shakin’ the dub down.

microgroover · Post by **microgroover** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:11 am

I've attended quite a few techno live PAs through the years.. and performed a couple aswell.. here's a short list..

Cold Dust 2001 - some multitrack DAT solution with a mixingboard and an old powerbook.. picture - this was absolutely MAD.. probably one of the better livesets I've seen so far..

Joel Mull and Peter Benisch 2002 - really nice performance with lot's of live vocoder action and keyboardism.. joel also worked alot of live on his MPC or whatever he was using... picture

My friend Marcus Wrangö aka. Funkwecker does some really cool minimalistic noise/clickhouseystuff.. picture

Then there's the live PAs I've done so far.. Back in the days I took my desktop PC + monitor + midi-keyboard with me.. Now I have a laptop + an M-Audio Audiophile Firewire.

Mixed Sounds II (Live 3.x or was it 2.x?)
Mixed Sounds III - live PA co-op with Marcus Wrangö (Live 4 + Marcus doing stuff on his Korg Electribe). I also had to move all clips from four of the tracks in the sequence view to new tracks while playing because they totally dead.. Techno is nothing without a bassdrum.. You can actually hear the glitches when I'm moving them..

Industrial Strength (Live 4, only hickup I had in this one was that I accidentally pressed stop at one point at the end.. But hey.. It's live isn't it?)
Rekyl Winterfestival (Live 5, had massive diskbuffering problems so I had to restart the set three times because warping didn't work the first time and the loops weren't playing the first two bars on the second try.. Even though they worked when testing just before the gig started, no reboot or relaunch of Live..

)
OJ (Live 5 with live percussions on my finger trigger, no hickups on this one except poorly prepared material...)

This saturday I'm doing a co-op live PA with Johan Afterglow under my new name (shameless promotion hehe.. ) Hangover Boy. We are both using Ableton Live 5. Johan does live vocals to his electrotech stuff and I'll be percussioning with the finger trigger plus playing own material..

My method is usually getting shorter loops from the tracks and then just half-wing them into a basic scene-structure and go from there.. Just makes it more fun and it is "sort-of" live.. Instead of just pressing play and then playing some stuff on the keyboard..

All my stuff is available from my homepage, bandwidth has been restricted on the webserver though so go easy on the downloads..

http://mgroover.sytes.net/ & http://www.hangoverboy.se/

over and out.. please send any comments to me by mail..

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ciw · Post by **ciw** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:30 pm

just to say thanks to everyone who replied here - lots of food for thought - I have (if I can make it!) a first gig coming up soon and I think you've all convinced me to play live rather than mix, or at least do some kind of hybrid performance (where performance is the key word, rather than just playing music

cheers!

microgroover · Post by **microgroover** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:11 pm

ciw wrote:just to say thanks to everyone who replied here - lots of food for thought - I have (if I can make it!) a first gig coming up soon and I think you've all convinced me to play live rather than mix, or at least do some kind of hybrid performance (where performance is the key word, rather than just playing music

cheers!

Just a tip.. Do not EVER EVER trust your computer.. ALWAYS reboot your computer before running LIVE, never EVER have any powermanagment features on (not even blank screen shit)... try playing a bunch of clips before going live on the speakers to check that there aren't any buffering problems or other odd track problems.. it's a horror to find out that some clips arent functioning (happened to me while rehearsing last night.. beat 4 3/4 muted.. eeek.. don't want that to happen when I'm doing it LIVE... )

just my few cents..

arctic ranger · Post by **arctic ranger** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:54 am

Gosh.....I remember way back when i first did live techno, i didnt even DJ back then. Alls i had was a beat up mpc2000, a emu esi32, a crappy yamaha mixer with berrigner crap fx, and a whole lot of midi and patch cables that looked like spagetti coming from the back of my rack(also not to mention a couple of zip drives). It was a nightmare to lug around. I loved those days.

I cant belive that for a fraction of the price u can get a decent lappy and some good software and have way more power to do the things u want. I'm all in for live techno. I like being able to mix in my own beats with other stuff, and i like the sound of live PA. I also like having a mpc100 so I can hit it as well.

Anyways just got Live 3 months ago and it freakin rocks.

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:34 am

Thanks!! Much appreciated. 3 years includes a lot of time thinking, researching, working out the hows etc... been actually preparing and practicing my live set on and off for nearly a year now. That includes a lot of time not doing any live-show related stuff, i.e. writing and mixing tunes.

As for the "step" - well it comes directly from "2-step" - the term Dubstep came from Horsepower productions (check earlier Tempa releases) who started making dubby 2-step. Dubstep has now become a defined style, a good place to start is www.dubstep.blogspot.com
"breakstep" is kinda like breaks, but with syncopated, sometimes shuffly rhythms, a lot like old uk hardcore and jungle. Check out tunes by Search & Destroy and Toasty for good examples. (personally i dont like the term much but it seems to have stuck)

Drop = after a breakdown, when the beat+bass drop back in. (not necessarily just drums and bass) - i.e. when u want the crowd to go mental.

GaryTracks wrote: A comment to ELEMENTAL : good luck on your upcoming show. THREE YEARS!!!!! You’ve been preparing?? Whew, that’s a lot of work. Wish I could be there. My first gig will be in April in Harbin Hot Springs, CA. , which is where I live. There is a big dance culture here, so my audience is ready-made. If you’re reading this, I’d like to ask you about your terminology . What does the “-STEP” signify after dub and break? Also how are you defining “drops” versus “breakdowns” . are drops like the old “rub-a-dubs” with drum and the bass only? I will keep an eye out for how your gig goes. Peace.

jerry123 · Post by **jerry123** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:57 am

... and don't forget http://www.museumoftechno.org

ciw · Post by **ciw** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:05 pm

jerry123 wrote:... and don't forget http://www.museumoftechno.org

have you seen those guys perform - do they actually play live techno? (I know they hint at it with their 'techno demonstrations'...)

aah, the debt we all owe to james soame and joseph kelly...

Steve Nalepa · Post by **Steve Nalepa** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:56 pm

You guys want to see live techno at its finest...check out Richard Devine (Warp/Schematic). http://www.richard-devine.com/ He will change your mind about live techno performances, he destroys it harder than anyone around. There's no way you can watch his set and afterwards say 'Live Techno Sucks.' Anyone saying this just hasn't been exposed to the real deal.

Also, one of the best techno sets I've seen in a long time came from the Swiss duo Galoppierende Zuversicht. They played up in SF a few months back after killing it at Mutek. An mp3 of their live set is down below. The entire set was done with all hardware devices, no computers. All old school drum machines and keyboards, etc. Craziness. KontrolSF has mp3s of a bunch of dope techno shows they've done over the last few months
http://www.kontrolsf.com/AUD/Galoppiere ... l%20SF.mp3

Finally, last word on the subject....you want live techno? Kenneth James Gibson aka 8FM aka (a)pendics.shuffle will blow your mind. He is the reigning king in my opinion. Hope you get a chance to see him, he plays all the time here in LA. He has links to some mp3s of his live sets on his site. (a)pendics.shuffle Check it out.
http://www.eight-frozen-modules.com

kekka_fuza · Post by **kekka_fuza** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:35 pm

Pink Floyd is not one person they are many people working together to record and play music. There are parts in this type of music and each person plays a role. One aspect of the role comes into play when recording where take after take may occur. Another aspect of the role is live performance which is completely different. Jamming may occur which must work with what is going on in the song at the moment. No stops and restarts. The live result sounds very different from the studio aspect when the musicians don't work on skills making them good at both. Pink Floyd is just an example meant to pull one out of the genre of techno and just look at it from a musical point. I say start a band with other members controlling different parts. If this occured some very impressive live electronic music could be created of any genre. I don't know many people that try to learn to play the drums, bass, lead guitar, rhythm guitar and keyboard so that they can play music. They learn one part and contribute with other members.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:51 am

Steve Nalepa wrote: Kenneth James Gibson aka 8FM aka (a)pendics.shuffle will blow your mind. He is the reigning king in my opinion. Hope you get a chance to see him, he plays all the time here in LA. He has links to some mp3s of his live sets on his site. (a)pendics.shuffle Check it out.
http://www.eight-frozen-modules.com

thanks for that - I bought a couple of his tunes on beatport and know nothing about him!

dancing Ray · Post by **dancing Ray** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:01 pm

kekka_fuza wrote:Pink Floyd is not one person they are many people working together to record and play music. There are parts in this type of music and each person plays a role. One aspect of the role comes into play when recording where take after take may occur. Another aspect of the role is live performance which is completely different. Jamming may occur which must work with what is going on in the song at the moment. No stops and restarts. The live result sounds very different from the studio aspect when the musicians don't work on skills making them good at both. Pink Floyd is just an example meant to pull one out of the genre of techno and just look at it from a musical point. I say start a band with other members controlling different parts. If this occured some very impressive live electronic music could be created of any genre. I don't know many people that try to learn to play the drums, bass, lead guitar, rhythm guitar and keyboard so that they can play music. They learn one part and contribute with other members.

Yo, I hope that this is the musical future.

Sometimes my pupils ask me if I play another instrument but drumset, I then always say: yes, I play computer. I would so much love to have a computer player or two in my band (instead of guitarists

). Then we could go even farther in the direction of live techno.
I think live techno is similar to jazz, you can put some good musicians on stage together and it works. Wheras in jazz often a harmonic scheme is selected before playing, you don´t even need that with techno. Sync the gear, say: "you go first, I follow along" and then burn the house. Of course you need good ears, musical understanding and skills. And you have to know your "instrument". And this instrument really does not have to be a computer, but unfortunally most good musicians (I know) don´t like techno.
Someone said before that you cannot bring your studio to stage but hey, we´ve got Live, don´t we?! This is the interface between recorded music and live music. You can do all the studio effects on stage, when you know what you are doing, as said above.

live techno sucks - discuss (please, this is not a troll!)

live PAs

Live Techno

Step back and look at other music

Re: Live Techno