live techno sucks - discuss (please, this is not a troll!)

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
spiderprod
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Post by spiderprod » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:52 pm

amo wrote:Hi,

not talking about software but about performance:
If you got a chance one day, check ou Chrystal Distortion or 69db in Live, and then you got a chance to see real awsome techno performed all live ! But those guys were born performing ! They started as teenagers I think some 15 years back, and they thought of techno music as a live act from the top.

Now, I'd say it's not easy to be good at live techno... takes a lot of practice ! imo.

amo

dude , i saw crystal distortion playing live at a facom party in london a few years back ,
i will probably remember the music all my life , crystal distortion is without any doubt the guy to see if someone wants to know what playing live techno is all about .
i remember buying his records in the nineties so one day he came around & went to see him , the live show is worth 10 times the records he made in terms or quality & art .
as for 69db i think what they do is quite strange , you have to like it .

anyway the one to watch at the moment is shen from bak sound system ,he does good hardcore .
i tought this forum was full of wanabe sasha ,good to hear that i am not the only one from the old school .

Dubreak
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Post by Dubreak » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:31 pm

Interesting thread alright...

I do live sets with a laptop, Live, A Bcf2000 and a Korg MS2000 or Prophecy. I think it could be classed as kinda Breaks/D'n'B/Dub... dunno really, I change it around a lot.

My live stuff never sounds as good as my sequenced stuff. I use Cubase LE, Reason3 and Live when sequencing stuff. But I also have a load of outboard stuff which gets used as well: Synths, drum machines, FX units, Mixing desk, Valve compressor, loads of VST's...CPU power...etc...etc... And probably most importantly... Loads of time.

For a while there I was bringing my Desktop to gigs, with a synth or two but it is too much to carry.. and too likely to get damaged or stolen. So now it is just two bags.

My sets consist of premade drumloops that I made in reason, recorded synth sounds, tv film samples, old disused audio from cubase tracks I started but never finished, samples from the net of analogue synths, various sample CD's and extracted refill packs, I also sometime rip a well known melody from a track and use it in a live remix. Once you have processed all the clips before hand (warp markers, gaps, level...etc....) everything works fine.

I arrange similar elements in vertical tables in no particular order in the Live clip-view screen. At the start of a set I will play a clip, completely messed up with effects and slowly un-effect it while bringing in another melody or drum track. As the set progresses I just randomly fire off clip after clip and mess with them on the fly with the bcf2000. I also just play away on the ms2000, making stuff up, pads/melodies/arps. I haven't got the ms2000 midi'ed up to the laptop because there is no sequenced midi being used by live. You can go for about 2 hours with a whole screen full of clips. If you practice it enough you can get some nice stuff going. If I get a particularly nice groove going, I'll record/resample it back into the set. I don't have a dual-out card yet for the laptop, I have my eye on an Echo DJ card, at the moment I just kinda know which clip is what by the vertical grouping. It takes some getting used to but works out well for me. I've played about 6 or 7 different clubs and festivals so far. Each set is different.

I would like to take the time to dismantle my cubase tracks into live format, but for the moment this way is working alright for me.

www.departurelounge247.com (some of my recorded livesets)

amo
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Post by amo » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:42 pm

spiderprod wrote:

dude , i saw crystal distortion playing live at a facom party in london a few years back ,
i will probably remember the music all my life
Oh yeah ! Finally, one that hear what I'm talking about :wink:
Seriously, to talk about gear, I saw Crystal Distortion maybe 5 times... always different gear, from electribe to RS7000 to juno synth to whatnot... I'm almost sure he gigged with Live last summer (wasn't there). This guy is amazing ! And he, I think, mostly tours Europe. And yes, he's productions are very different. I myself prefer it live and fresh.
Live 5.0.3 - IBM Thinkpad R51 1.5ghz Centrino - 1,5 Go RAM - 7200 RPM 2nd HDD intern - RME Multiface - Windows XP Pro SP2

spiderprod
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Post by spiderprod » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:57 pm

amo wrote:
spiderprod wrote:

dude , i saw crystal distortion playing live at a facom party in london a few years back ,
i will probably remember the music all my life
Oh yeah ! Finally, one that hear what I'm talking about :wink:
Seriously, to talk about gear, I saw Crystal Distortion maybe 5 times... always different gear, from electribe to RS7000 to juno synth to whatnot... I'm almost sure he gigged with Live last summer (wasn't there). This guy is amazing ! And he, I think, mostly tours Europe. And yes, he's productions are very different. I myself prefer it live and fresh.
when i saw him he was playing on a 909 & i think it was a rs7000 .
look the party i went was free , i remember him doing the door & we told him we were completely broke , he smile & said come on get in .
of course i am talking about squat party but hey that 's where you have to go if you wanna hear really good music .

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:59 pm

I don't know - the Chemical Brothers blow up super SUPER SUPER hard

but they're different things

Watching Marco Carola rock it on 3 or 4 decks is pretty amazing

Watching the Chemical Brothers show up and blow up their own music is pretty amazing as well


I guess it depends on who you go see...


I don't think "Live Techno" is any better or worse than dj'd / mixed techno - it all depends on who's behind the decks so to speak




Adonis
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DeadlyKungFu
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Post by DeadlyKungFu » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:31 pm

you have not lived until you see the chemical brothers live. They get the crowd grooving, then hopping, then the front row starts jumping and the jumping expands to the back of the venue and they hit the AWWWW SHIT! button and the whole place blows up, calms down, and they do it all over again. They were also bouncing sound off the roof, as in playing to the delay time of the venue (Cow Palace in South San Francisco is, as the name implies, a huge barn), fucking brilliant.

Underworld live is also amazing.

I've also seen smaller live acts, usually a female singer and a guy operating a synth and drum machine. Vocals go a long way, allowing the synth and drum work to remain relatively simple.

You can pull it off however you want, it's all up to what you can do.

To say a produced track will always sound better is the anal retentive bottomless argument that leads down the rabbitt hole of expensive compressors, EQs, monitors, people with 'golden ears' blah blah blah. There is stuff that would be really hard to pull off live, it's all up to the talent of the musician.

A track played in real time, like a DJ will have a better connection with the audience, that is, if the performer is up to it. It's the same difference between a good and bad DJ.

If I were to play live I'd have clips laid out with a controller(s) set up to tweak favorite paramaters on each clip. Introduce a clip, tweak it as a lead line, set it back in the mix, introduce another, tweak it, take it away...

I'd say it can go either way.

mr-e
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Post by mr-e » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:38 pm

Anybody knows London Electricity , if you're talking "live" electronics , those guys play live DnB without any presequenced material and even without clicktrack : the main guy swings the tempo with his arms at the beginning of every track and the band takes over , triggering every sound live on keyboards , live drums , ...
Apparantly there was a lot of rehearsal involved :-D

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:02 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote:you have not lived until you see the chemical brothers live. They get the crowd grooving, then hopping, then the front row starts jumping and the jumping expands to the back of the venue and they hit the AWWWW SHIT! button and the whole place blows up, calms down, and they do it all over again. They were also bouncing sound off the roof, as in playing to the delay time of the venue (Cow Palace in South San Francisco is, as the name implies, a huge barn), fucking brilliant.

.

A man who knows his Chemicals -

Dude they killed Seattle, fucking dropped the most amazing (I'm going to say unreleased) techno house 4 on the 4 thing right off the bat and that pretty much set the mood -

devasting, dinosauric beats - I was a changed man


then again, inspiration struck at a Spundae party back in '97 at the old USC warehouse when Terry Mullan went on @ 2

first track was the "Electronic Battle Weapon - it doesn't matter"

scratching the "ah yeah" sample over the intro


iiiiitttt (ah wicky ah ah wicky wicky ) doessssnnn't maaaatttteeer (ah wicky ah ah wicky wicky ) it doesn't maaaaaaater (ah wicky ah ah wicky wicky )

ah wicky ah ah wicky wicky ah

AH YEAH

IT DOESN'T MATTER! IT DOESN'T MATTER! IT DOESN'T MATTER! BOOM BOOM BOOM


That changed my life, literally


DJA!
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kennerb
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Post by kennerb » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:24 pm

Right now I am doing a project that has my beats, sample, and synth stuff mixed with live percussion, bass, singing, and other instruments. Though it is not "techno" per se it is very electonic - acoustic. We played a party and rocked it. People are asking to book us just from that one event. So I know that it pulled off OK. My thing is that you have to do something live with your set. I play a lot of the bass synth and guitar lines in real time. That way people can hear me screw up and I can work with the environment and energy better.

Infected Mushroom were very inspiring to me to see. They put 100% into their show.
3ghz Pentium 4 (Prescott), XP Sp2, 1gig Ram, Dual Monitor with Matrox Millenium, MOTU Traveler, Event EZ8 Adat card. Also IBM THinkpad t40 1.6 1 gig ram

Technological Affaires
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Post by Technological Affaires » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:29 pm

Go to see Richie Hawtin...... I've seen him twice.... he does what he wants with sounds.... and with ABLV !!!! AMAZING

LJ Martin
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Post by LJ Martin » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:39 pm

I saw Modern Deep Left Quartet here in Vancouver a while ago, couldn't say that was boring, some of the best live Tech House I have ever seen, from what I understand most of their set was improvised on the spot and it was simply amazing. Sorry can't find a website but I can find lots of vinyl for sale online.

Here's a publicity quote from one of their releases

"The Modern Deep Left Quartet are Danuel Tate on keys, Tyger Dhula and The Mole programming, and Mathew Jonson on SH-101. This EP was recorded live and easily exceeds the sum of its parts. Be warned though! Do not expect anything too predictable. The a-side "Babyfoot" is an excellent excercise in ambient textures which evolves into a loungey masterpiece. "Intervention" is propably the track that most conforms to any expectations we might have had, "The River Card" is blisfull beatdriven ambience (think Dettinger & some of the early Voigt releases) but the absolute one and only highlight of the record is "Straight Whiskey", which is sandwiched between the last two. A huge rhythmic workout - part Sonic Youth, part krautrock, part absolute brilliance. Wrong. It's pure brilliance. End of story."
Image

djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:49 pm

A lot of techno artist do their tracks live, on the fly

Rumor has it people like AdamJay write beats live (unconfirmed rumor)

so with that in mind - if you're into music like that, I bet it'd be a pretty cool live show

I try, but I can't quit figure out how to drop breaks on the 1.1.4 right before the next 1

I guess I could just create a new scene - or even write the break in the arrange view and bounce it down to it's own audio clip cntrl c to cntrl v back in session view

it's pretty cool with the stuff you can do in the program right here

but that's what Live is for - assign some buttons and sliders to some buttons and sliders and see what happens

mad respect to the cats who do it off the cuff - takes talent


peace


a
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divonic
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Post by divonic » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:55 pm

Funkstar De Luxe wrote:Underworld's live performances are far better than studio stuff
I wouldn't go that far.

What about Rabit In The Moon. They are amazing live.

Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:18 pm

Hi, apologies to those who've read this before: (Re-post)

This is the setup for my 2-man band. Its pretty complicated because we wanted to have 16 separate outputs from Live into an analog mixing desk so we can do extensive dub mixing on stage, trigger video clips, and have a crash-proof setup.

We run Live on two Tibook 500's, each feeding 8 individual audio outputs via two RME Multifaces. The Tibooks are both chasing MIDI clock from my controller keyboard, a Roland A-37. The A-37 and a ReMote25 are used to trigger Scenes and Clips in Live and use MIDI CCs to control plugins/effects/levels etc.

One Tibook handles the rhythm section: mono kick, snare, bass, hats, stereo perc, stereo drums. The other Tibook handles the "instruments" as 4 stereo pairs. The "Instruments" machine also has a MIDI track sending MIDI sequences to a 17"Alubook that does video (using Modul8 software) Every scene has its own video sequence plus there are "overrides" under the keys on our MIDI controllers so that I can hit say, a huge reverb dub snare and there appears on the screen a shot of a seed pod exploding.

Once the Macs are loaded at the start of the gig they do not have to be touched at all until they are shut down at the end of the gig. All the control of Live is done from the MIDI keyboards. In fact the Macs are off to the side of the stage and we do not need to look at the computer screens at any time. No accusations of email-checking here, we'd much rather jump up and down!

One Live Set is used on each machine for the whole gig. Our Sets are about 110 tracks wide and about 250 Scenes deep. There is a trick of combining lots of songs accross the Session View left to right top to bottom. You just keep adding new tracks and new scenes so all your songs end up diagonally and top-to-bottom accross the page.

The clips and Scenes for each individual song are set to receive on a different MIDI channel. Song 1 on channel 1, song 2 on channel 2 etc. The MIDI controller keyboards are set up with one patch per song, each patch transmitting a different MIDI channel. Between songs I push the patch increment button on the A-37 controller and the ReMote 25 changes patch, the Akai sampler changes patch, the hardware FX change, and the next song in Live is instantly available under the keys.

As a safety measure, each Live set has a track (which is normally muted) playing a stereo rough mix of what the other Tibook is doing in any given scene. If one Tibook crashes, we can unmute this track and "fly on one engine" while we re-boot the other Mac. The MIDI is routed so that if one powerbook dies it doesn't take the other out. In the last 3 years, we've only ever had two crashes on stage - probably due to going too nuts and HAMMERING the midi - but this backup strategy worked sweetly each time without the audience knowing a thing.

The 16 individual audio outs from Live go into a Behringer 24 ch desk on stage. We have 4 hardware FX sends on this for our dub mixing. (Two Boss SE-50s, one doing 2 delays, the other doing 2 reverbs). I play the keyboards and Mike-the-other-half does the dub and also manipulates the video from a second ReMote25.

We are still using OS9 (gasp) on stage because our Tibooks are so elderly (one Gb of RAM max) and the sets so big OSX just doesn't wanna know! But we have OSX.4.2 partitions with Live 5 and Logic etc that we use in the studio.

There is some video of us playing live and a whole bunch of mp3s over at www.pitchblack.co.nz

cheers,
Paddy

Live rig specs:
Tibook 500 x 2
OS9.2.2
1Gb Ram
5400 rpm internal HD
RME Cardbus/Multiface
Live 4.0.2

Alubook 17"
OSX.3
Modul8 video software

Roland A-37
ReMote25 x 2

Akai S3200 sampler
Boss SE-50 multiFX x 2
Behringer 24ch desk
MBP M1Max | MacOS 12.7.2 | Live 11.3.20 | Babyface Pro FS | Push 3 (tethered) | a whole other bunch of controllers
Ableton Certified Trainer
Soundcloud

onyxashanti
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Post by onyxashanti » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:00 am

performers today put too much empahsis on the tools and not enough on the performer. if you didnt have ableton live, and had a guitar would you be any more or less interesting to watch or listen to? why? the only way to know, is to go out and do your live techno, house, DnB, RnB...whatever, in front of whoever. and keep doing it over and over again until you learn how to push your crowds collective buton.

onyx

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