Live 5.0.3 starts in the middle of the beat

[Machinate]

yeah, I can definitely see the "theoretical" reason why it's a good idea to change it like you did - but it never bothered me before, I didn't see any FRs about it, and I've struggled with it quite a few times.

If I start a recording at 2.1.1 it is not because I want to offset anything, If I want to offset I am most likely to do it "in-out of time" with a loop recording started at 1.1.1.

I guess that for the time being I am with Supster - sans the drama and indigestion

A - still on 5.0.3

[kennerb]

I have to agree here. My first real big experience with 5.0.3 was very frustrating. I felt that the "on the fly" factor was reduced greatly. I would have things going and then make a new clip real time. When I'd stop and start the scene again it would inevitably be off. The only way to get it done right was to stop everything, go to each clip and make sure the clip starts were set where I wanted them. Even then they would move after I got things going again. Please give me the option to not have this "enhancement"

[silicon1138]

i'm also with superstar on this one. I've also gone back to 5.02. It was WAY to confusing trying to work out what the hell was happening with something that seemed so fundamentally straightforward. I could be wrong but i really think most live users work with small loops, 1,2,4, 8 bars etc, and when they stop and press play again, they want it all to just kick in on the one - this IS the key to keeping the flow going, why would you possibly want to start at bar 3? that just shakes me off my tree...

I simply don't see how you can get to the 5th generation of Live and change what is possibly the most basic underlying operational task.

I've not seen the board here lit up with such emotion for quite some time, and it makes for painful frustrating reading.

Abes, lot's of users are confused and unhappy - and we were all SO in love with live 5 before this last update.

[madlab]

Both are right to me. when I work for a theater play, I want Live to act as Stefan describes it. But when I work on more musical stuff, I, most of the time, want the clips to start from 1.1.1. ... et vice-versa
So I guess that the best would be to give us the choice. [/i]

[hoffman2k]

Yeah. Live should have the 2 modes.

This "fixed" way makes sense, because it's a clever way of arranging on the fly.
But i only see the benefits of it with long audio files or sequences.

Figuring Live was "broken", we all got used to a clip starting at the beginning. (or wherever we set the start marker.

Have some compasion for the people who enjoy some of your "bugs/features"

Give us the 2 modes and perhaps come up with a third. Live is not nearly confusing enough. (patch cables, anybody?)

And for god sake, keep warm and drink lots of chicken soup.

[kennerb]

So maybe this could apply in arrange view only then? or we could have Theatre mode and musician mode. Whatever it is I hope it happens soon.

[Machinate]

I know that from a design point of view this may not be the best idea, but from a producers point of view, and figuring that every user has a different way of using live: please put a selector box in the preferences Or a hotkey

[supster]

please put a selector box in the preferences Or a hotkey

yes, please guys

changing a fundamental way things behave without an option AND without clear notification (did anyone pick up on this being a new "feature" in documentation anywhere) ...

... this is a repeat of what happened with the 'orange dot', and its just plain wrong. i dont understand how it could have happened again.

i literally cant use 5.03 the way it is, and im sure im not the only one.

please add the preference asap. please ...
.

[Angstrom]

This is weird, really weird. It doesn't behave for me as Stefan explains, it is actually unusable!

Example: in 5.02

1. I have a programmed four bar drum clip, with a 'crash' noise on beat one.
2. arrangement is empty & unused so far, but loop braces are set to the first four bars.
3. I am playing in session, but want to reset so I can hear the first beat 'crash'
4. in 5.02 I hit stop a few times then play, the song start from beat one.
5. session starts at 1.1.1 everything in sync

Example: in 5.03

1. I have a programmed four bar drum clip, with a 'crash' noise on beat one.
2. arrangement is empty & unused so far, but loop braces are set to the first four bars.
3. I am playing in session, but want to reset so I can hear the first beat 'crash'
4. in 5.03 I hit stop a few times then play, the 4 bar clip starts from 3.1.1 .. I cannot hear the 'crash' in time

I cannot find a reason for this, the arrangement is not in any 'state' where I might be indicating I want this. The arrangement head readout says 1.1.1 , the graphic shows that too - but the pattern starts as 3.1.1

I loaded up 5.02 and it worked as I want, when I reloaded 5.03 and tried to play session from the start I could only get the crash to play on 3.1.1 ... NOT where it actually is .
Understand?
this is after I closed and open the program - the 4 bar loop is 2 bars out of time, with no way to make it start correctly it seems?

I suppose I will have to send a file so you can see what I mean, but I am away to ireland in the morning so it's going to be hard to find time.

[kennerb]

This is weird, really weird. It doesn't behave for me as Stefan explains, it is actually unusable!

Example: in 5.02

1. I have a programmed four bar drum clip, with a 'crash' noise on beat one.
2. arrangement is empty & unused so far, but loop braces are set to the first four bars.
3. I am playing in session, but want to reset so I can hear the first beat 'crash'
4. in 5.02 I hit stop a few times then play, the song start from beat one.
5. session starts at 1.1.1 everything in sync

Example: in 5.03

1. I have a programmed four bar drum clip, with a 'crash' noise on beat one.
2. arrangement is empty & unused so far, but loop braces are set to the first four bars.
3. I am playing in session, but want to reset so I can hear the first beat 'crash'
4. in 5.03 I hit stop a few times then play, the 4 bar clip starts from 3.1.1 .. I cannot hear the 'crash' in time

I cannot find a reason for this, the arrangement is not in any 'state' where I might be indicating I want this. The arrangement head readout says 1.1.1 , the graphic shows that too - but the pattern starts as 3.1.1

I loaded up 5.02 and it worked as I want, when I reloaded 5.03 and tried to play session from the start I could only get the crash to play on 3.1.1 ... NOT where it actually is .
Understand?
this is after I closed and open the program - the 4 bar loop is 2 bars out of time, with no way to make it start correctly it seems?

I suppose I will have to send a file so you can see what I mean, but I am away to ireland in the morning so it's going to be hard to find time.

This is exactly what I see as well. I don't see how this would be desired.

[Angstrom]

I have figured out how to get eveything in time again, I have to manually re-trigger all the longer clips on the 1.1.1 beat rather than hitting stop to re-set them!

Well, thats pretty stupid, because if (for example ) I have a percussion loop which is 6 bars long that loops over a 4 bar base .. I need to manually make sure that is re-triggered by clicking on it and anything else that may not conform. Instead of simply hitting stop a few times.

try it, make a 6 bar percussion loop with a 'crash' on the begining then stop it and try and restart it with the crash on the 1. hard isn't it.

[supster]

I cannot find a reason for this, the arrangement is not in any 'state' where I might be indicating I want this.

yes, we're giving reasons why this behavior is undesirable

stephan, can you give us real scenarious that show why ableton thought that this new behavior would be the logical, desired behavior in most real world situations?

or give us any scenarios where this *is* desirable at all?

it seems to me you guys are destroying your application, for reasons that not at all understood by the people that have paid for it and are trying to accomplish work with it.

.

[Machinate]

Angstrom and Supster, I think the confusion is about "why does it show a different measure", right? Well, they've changed Live to be a bit more intelligent, in that it now registers *when* you've recorded your clip relative to the arrangement time (which would be "absolute time")

Now, I'm willing to wager that your crash sound was recorded at 3.1.1, and you've used the first two bars as a count-in, Angstrom? And the clip remembers this, so that your original timing is recalled, even if go back to 1.1.1.

[Angstrom]

[edit]
@ machinate - no it's not that, think of the 6 bar loop, or even a 7 bar loop over a 4 bar drum base ... it is now impossible to re-start all those clips in sync on the one. The seven bar clip will start on bar 5 while the 4 bar will start on bar 1 - despite me wanting to listen to all of them from 1.1.1 I cant. they maintain an unwanted 'arrangement position'

I dont ever use scenes, so I now have to manually shift select all clips and hit return!
[/edit]


wow, I may have found the the "worst case scenario" of all.

while playing a chemical brothers track with some test 4 & 8 bar programmed beats over the top. I stop the session then re-start to examine again how well my 'crash' fits with the start marker of the Chem's track. But of course the chems track now starts where I stopped it. I cant hear the crash with the start of their track - So I need to start the session by clicking the start button of the chems clip.

Weirdly I got a few occaisions where the chemical brothers track won't play at all!

repeatable:

- my (empty) arrangement is looping around between 1.1.1 and 5.1.1
- the chems start marker is at about 38.1.1

- if I trigger the Chems track at anything over 3.1.1 on the main arrangement time, then stop and re-start ... I dont get any chemical brothers at all.


damn, I knew I should have done some beta testing this time.

[supster]

Angstrom and Supster, I think the confusion is about "why does it show a different measure", right?

no, the confusion is why the session grid is now more complicated than it needs to be, is not nearly as predictable or useful in real world scenarios, and we are wondering why it needed to be changed in the first place.

it was simple before. it worked. now its not, and it doesnt
.