Turntables

bermudagold · Post by **bermudagold** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 5:25 pm

hey guys, what are the pros and cons of S tone arms versus straight tone arms on a turntable?.....only ever used tech 12s...and its been a while so now i see there are a lot of new turntable styles and manufacturers.

also any recommendations on the cheapest direct drive turntable?.....i just want to convert record collection and perform the turntable in my productions.....either using the new vst ms pinky (which sounds perfect as u should be able to perform the turntable on any sound source just like any other instrument in live...no seperate apps, recording rendering, importing, and then trying to resync).....anyone done a realism test....ms pinky vs serato vs final scratch?....ms pinky is lots cheaper than the other two...feel me

since i want to perform the turntable,....i guess belt drives are out....like that ION thing.....even though we had tricks and developed skills to make it work back in the day....lol.....even though people say in converting your record collection pristinely belt drives are better because of less flutter and table noise?....myth?.....jus curious of cats opinions since it seems to be a lot of dj's round here

thanks in advance
easy

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:26 pm

Supposedly, S arms are better for playback because of their angular shape, and straight arms are better for scratching because of the angle of contact with the record. However, the stress of straight arms will cause your vinyl to wear down faster. I'm not 100% sure about this, though... it's just what I heard from some sales d00d at guitar center once.

And as far as recording goes, I thought that a belt-drive would be better because of less noise and interference with the platter. Of course, they are pure shite for spinning because of the torque issues, but frankly, you will probably not notice a substantial difference between the two as long as you have decent needles.

dubbyah · Post by **dubbyah** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:45 pm

If your going to be doing any scratching or beat juggling, or even *heavy* live sets, then a straight arm is going to be HELLA better. I had two technics and sold them for numark ttx's (but vestax pdx's work fine), and my scratching/juggling has improved LEAPS AND FUCKIN BOUNDS. I can NEVER go back to a low torque turntable too. Its the high torque and the straight arm that kicks the shit out of technics. Technics are so out, I mean, they work fine and all, but once you try out a pdx/ttx for scratching or juggling its just way better.
As for sound quality, theres no noticable difference between the two arms.

Dont get technics, and dont get something with low torque like a technics, you'll thank me later... d-styles, ricci rucker, toadstyle, all the best scratchers all use ttx

get a numark tt500, its like 170 bucks and I prefer it WAY over my technics..
if you get a tt500 you will be very very happy

bermudagold · Post by **bermudagold** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:31 pm

really appreciate that guys....interesting stuff i didn't know.....since i definitely wanna perform the turntable like an instrument sounds like a high torque direct drive with a straight arm,...even if sonically it turns out to not be the most pristine way to convert ur vinyl....if it wears down ur vinyl significantly faster, then i definitely wouldn't want to do a lot of juggling on some really rare vinyl.....i'd rather convert it to wav and then use the ms pinky time coded vinyl to cut up the wav instead......any ms pinky users with live out there.....opinions?...results?

also, any cartridge recommendations.....i even forget the ones we used to swear by back in the day

good lookin guys

dubbyah · Post by **dubbyah** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:51 pm

there is no record wear that I can tell thats any worse then a technics, I cut on the same record every day on a straight arm with a shure m447 and the record still sounds new and looks perfect.. i think record wear depends on the needle, and how much weight you have on it. also, scrtatching with Ms Pinky, or final scratch, or serato, sounds nowhere near the real thing.. Its okay, if you must manipulate a .wav sample, but if you can get that wav sample on vinyl it will be hella better.

ltrm · Post by **ltrm** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:20 pm

And the award for nerdiest post goes to....

<comicBookStoreGuy>
It's not so much wether the arm is straight or s-shaped but the length and angle of the cartridge to the groove that's important. For instance most 'straight' armed hifi decks still have an arm which is angled in and, for scratching performs like the S-shaped arms. The s-shape was originally used as a way to reduce vibration in the tone arm to improove sound quality.

Having the toed in angle reduces distortion caused by the curve of the grooves; it gets worse the closer in you get to the centre of the record. Only thing is that having the needle pointing in and behind the curve pulls the needle towards the centre. So to get perfect sound you need cancel out the pull using an anti-skate force.

Now when your scratching half the time your pulling the record back so your skate force will be pushing the needle outward and you've still got your anti-skate also pushing the needle out. Which makes it easier to skip out tha groove.

On the Straight are Vestax, etc the cart is set up so that their is no skate forces in either direction so they're more stable. The trade off is that they tend to add more wear to one over the other and they have more distortion. Whether you'll notice it or not is an other matter...
</comicBookStoreGuy>

Personally I prefer technics for their feel (prob. just 'cause I'm used to them). If you do try 1200s then turn the anti-skate to zero.

As for carts I've been using 44Gs for a while and before that Ortos and before that Stanton. I like them all for different reasons... Just make sure you get spherical needles if you're going to scratch.