POLL: Are you having servere LAGTIME using arrange view?

Nokatus · Post by **Nokatus** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:24 pm

Edit: Double post, sorry.

radeon · Post by **radeon** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:46 pm

supster wrote:
elemental wrote:So far 70% of users have this prob ... maybe Ableton are part of the lucky 30% in their testing?

Lets keep this going till we get some sort of answer or acknowledgement from the Abletonians.

i did recieve a brief reply from ableton this morning.

apparently this problem *is* related to the priority the audio is given over the graphic interface.

also was told that because this is the case (its not an error in the code or bug related) that they will work toward improving performance but essentially there are no guarantees.

.

If thats their response I will ask for a full refund. If they truly said that their burying their heads deep in the sand. There is no way they havent noticed this. This problem will eventually kill this applications reputation. this software is looking like the new steinberg when they had serious problems.

Fucking shame----its all about getting our money and fuck the consequences.

AVLETON ANSWER THE PEOPLES QUESTIONS ON THE FORUM. DONT MAKE A FOOL OF US.

When I think of it im wondering why i bother. The software has serious problems which is causing me stress. Fuck this shit! I think im going to sell this crapl.

supster · Post by **supster** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:50 pm

radeon wrote:
If thats their response I will ask for a full refund. If they truly said that their burying their heads deep in the sand. There is no way they havent noticed this. This problem will eventually kill this applications reputation. this software is looking like the new steinberg when they had serious problems.

well i do have to say that this was a response from one person who was assigned my email out of a queue - i dont think its right to copy and paste the response verbatim on the board, but that was basically it

this doesnt mean that nobody there is taking this seriously, they should be.

and i agree it should be addressed openly on the forum. i can see where as a general rule its not a good idea, but in this case they do owe some kind of explanation and assurances it can and will be addressed.
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elemental · Post by **elemental** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:14 pm

yes, as the ratio moves towardsmore people having arrangement problems... we really need some open explanation. I myself am seriously considering going back to Cubase SX for my production, at least to do my arrangements+mixdown... as much as I love Live its just too frustrating when I need to get tracks finished!!

Please dont just let this lie, until this is sorted I cannot recommend it to others as a good all-round production environment.

dpel · Post by **dpel** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:02 pm

Emissary wrote:I belive this has to do with the flawless audio engine.

So the audio stream doesnt cut out , things like copy/paste are but into the background,

I guess it happens a little when the audio stream isnt playing aswell doesnt it though. Maybe when you hit stop, you could have a button that turns the audio engine off aswell, like Sonar.

But i would prefer slow graphics and a constant audio stream anyday rather than the other way round.

this would be my guess too or something like it. ableton has probably hit a wall with this issue and may not be able to get around it. let's hope they do because i too am experiencing this issue (since version 3?). certainly doesn't happen in the other programs.

dpel · Post by **dpel** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:10 pm

Mbazzy wrote:Just made a test set with 20 tracks, 50 clips - mix of one shots/1 minute loops, 16 bar, 32 bar loops ... no problem ... mind I'm still on 3.0.4 (but apparently this exists for some people already since 2.x)

Mbazzy, 3.0.4 ; that's what i thought.
because i have a PB G4 with 5.0.2 and it's pretty sluggish. (even on the PC)
3.0.4 was a good version, but not as good as 1.5!!!

dpel · Post by **dpel** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:15 pm

elemental wrote:yes, as the ratio moves towardsmore people having arrangement problems... we really need some open explanation. I myself am seriously considering going back to Cubase SX for my production, at least to do my arrangements+mixdown... as much as I love Live its just too frustrating when I need to get tracks finished!!

Please dont just let this lie, until this is sorted I cannot recommend it to others as a good all-round production environment.

hold out for Protools 7.0!!!.
It's going to kick everyone in the pants.
E V E R Y O N E !
(sceamed like Gary Oldman's part in "The Proffesional")

supster · Post by **supster** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:50 pm

i would like to add one thing to put it into perspective ..

that is a certain amount of problems people learn to accept. non of the DAWs are perfect, some run better on some setups better than others.

all of them cant be expected to handle all the different versions of OS and hardware and RAM and especially all of the VSTs and third party plugins (many of which are written differently and/or poorly)

its a complicated business and im sure very frustrating because a lot of it is somewhat out of yoru control and extremely difficult to compensate for, its all almost too much to get a handle on

nevertheless: this issue with the lockups at such low CPU usage and with the kind of systems (standard hardware, plenty of RAM) we are running is out of the ordinary .. i dont think even with all of the above taken into account this is something that can be expected to be accepted as just "par for the course"

because people are coming forward and saying that other DAWs are handling it much better on the same gear.
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Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:04 pm

could the graphic card (and selected options) have something to do with it ?

I'm in the 30% with no slowness other than when dragging (paste is fine). I have a ATI 9250

supster · Post by **supster** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:16 pm

Chris J wrote:could the graphic card (and selected options) have something to do with it ?

I'm in the 30% with no slowness other than when dragging (paste is fine). I have a ATI 9250

i did notice a few people with this problem (including myself) have the radeon 9000 series.

but i dont have enough data to say one way or another .. there should be people at ableton that have the test machines to figure out if there are certain setups that are making this problem worse
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Nokatus · Post by **Nokatus** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:34 pm

Mobility Radeon 7500 here.

I think I'm going to have to test this issue on my desktop as well.

bluskreen · Post by **bluskreen** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:51 pm

i've been working on some bigger projects recently and have major issues with lagtime too. even when playback is stopped and cpu is only at 10%. it makes it extremely difficult and frustrating to do even the simplest edits.

live 5.0.2, powerbook g4, 1.5 ghz, 1gb ram, osx 10.4.3.

oh, and if it matters i have a Mobility Radeon 9700.

timothyallan · Post by **timothyallan** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:29 pm

elemental wrote: I myself am seriously considering going back to Cubase SX for my production, at least to do my arrangements+mixdown... as much as I love Live its just too frustrating when I need to get tracks finished!!

I loaded Cubase SX back onto my machine last night. I cringed, but after thinking about all the time I'm wasting using Live 5, I'm going to have to do the same thing as you.

After I finish up this final Live project i'm working on (straw that broke the camels back), I will start using Live for creative bits and small jobs, but it's back to Cubase as the arrangement + mixdown workhorse. It's a shame really, but I guess you can't have it all in one solution.

If only Live 4 had PDC I would have never switched...

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:20 pm

supster wrote:
elemental wrote:So far 70% of users have this prob ... maybe Ableton are part of the lucky 30% in their testing?

Lets keep this going till we get some sort of answer or acknowledgement from the Abletonians.

i did recieve a brief reply from ableton this morning.

apparently this problem *is* related to the priority the audio is given over the graphic interface.

also was told that because this is the case (its not an error in the code or bug related) that they will work toward improving performance but essentially there are no guarantees.

this is very disappointed because - as ive said a couple of times - its not just a huge problem for us, but a much bigger problem for them imo:

the reputation of live as a production tool will definitely rise or fall according to how creative they can be in making this work out or not, i dont see any way around that.
.

As a fan of Ableton Live, i think its a bit dubious of them to say this. The copy/paste works really quick when you first open up Live. Even on the heavy projects which cause these problems. After a couple of operations, or simply Live being open for a period of time, the lag comes back.

Please ableton, use your eternal wisdom and relieve us.

radeon · Post by **radeon** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:19 am

some of U are heaps more diplomatic than I am. DONT tell ableton they have wonderful software eternal wisdom and gods of daws before being ashamed to mention that something is worng. Its not our faults its theres. The software they make doesnt work as it says on the box. Problems are buried from users who are blind to the facts or wont hear anythink bad said about live. Ableton are fucking with our creativity because the software is shit now. Its not as easy to just throw it away because we ALL have invested a lot of time in this software and HOPED this would be all the only software we need to use. If they carry on lik ethis imagine how bad version six will be and even more cpu hungry.

To those who never use the arrangemnt page the problem is not severe in session view. and pasting is completely difeerent from dragging multiple parts in arrange to make copies of them. in all other software the parts are only a pointer to where the audio resides on the hard drive. WHY the fuck has abletons piss poor programmers messed this area up and forcing us to spend hours on arranging because we have to wait eons for it to calculate a piss easy algorythm. DONT THEY EVER MAKE SOME MUSIC WITH THEIR OWN SOFTWARE. Obviuosly NOT
Iposted my first time here a few weeks ago and said Ableton need to work their code. I still stand by my words.

I know I know I know and so does hmmmmmm

POLL: Are you having servere LAGTIME using arrange view?

Are you having severe lag time in arrange view?