Cracks and pops on Mac

krikor · Post by **krikor** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:46 am

forgie wrote:I haven't had any problems really.... on my 1.33Ghz iBook running 10.4.3

well i never had this problem on my powerbook either, using the onboard or the RME except on very long bounces (20 minutes) but i have it badly on the G5

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:31 pm

dom wrote:

M-Audio states on their website that they don't suggest upgrading higher then panther if you use a slow g3/g4 mac because of performance problems.

hi dom , from ableton. I think it sucks that you are quoting the M-audio website. Dont you have a better communication channel with them than that ? Try phoning them up please and getting your software working right on their interfaces. I also think its crazy because ableton live comes with most m-audio interfaces , and is one of the most common external interface brands out there. Its not good enough to shrug your shoulders on this issue , you should have a much better understanding of their audio interfaces before you accept the publics money , in my opinion. Its obvious to me it is just a financial , or economic partnership and nothing else. Also , it seems quite a few people have used live 4 , with the same interfaces and machines, and the problem is with the previous and current version of live 5. so I dont accept to hold the interface or the machines as responsible for these reasons. At first I couldnt produce with live 5 , now i cant even play (dj) with it because it sounds crack , snap and pop. and thats just playing simple 4 bar loops of 44.1hz songs at their original tempo. No amazing trickery whatsoever. and the cpu at 8%

Post by **Alex** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:08 pm

Hi henry ford,

I think it sucks that you are quoting the M-audio website. Dont you have a better communication channel with them than that ? Try phoning them up please and getting your software working right on their interfaces.

But to tell them what? Something they already know?
All what Dom wanted to say is that only the connecting of a FireWire based audio interfaces can lead to periodically CPU spikes in the kernel of OS X.
As slower the CPU is as more worse does it behave.

Dom asked also for the following:

It would be very helpfuls if everyone participating in this thread checks the kernel_task and the system performance in general with the process monitor with a.) onboard audio (it is important to really pull the firewireplug) and b.) with your firewire interface.

Unfortunately there are no replies to this question so far.

regards,
/Alex

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:46 pm

Alex wrote:
Dom asked also for the following:
It would be very helpfuls if everyone participating in this thread checks the kernel_task and the system performance in general with the process monitor with a.) onboard audio (it is important to really pull the firewireplug) and b.) with your firewire interface.
Unfortunately there are no replies to this question so far.

regards,
/Alex

I would like to try and test this but I am too much of layman to understand the request. If this was laid out in simpler terms, like say adamjays performance test, I would be immediately all over it. I would be willing to do anything to narrow down/resolve these problems I am having my fw1814.

Otherwise I am gonna keep trying these work arounds with lightpipe...sigh

unusable · Post by **unusable** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:03 pm

I did post my results (from the demo) and there was a huge spike in the CPU usage when connected to firewire.

btw I'm now an owner,

LOFA, ummmm, use your activity monitor to monitor the kernal_task
process name in two circumstances 1) when you have the f/w device plugged in and 2) when you don't have the firewire device plugged in

I'd also eliminate any other firewire devices from your systems while testing.

krikor · Post by **krikor** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:19 pm

Ableton: what about onboard and othersoundcards? this problem seems to be more general than just a m-audio problem. Have you got further info regarding this today??

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:25 pm

Alex wrote: All what Dom wanted to say is that only the connecting of a FireWire based audio interfaces can lead to periodically CPU spikes in the kernel of OS X.

dont you think then , it would be a good idea for ableton to go and address this problem ? or didnt you think it would matter ? if firewire wasnt as common as it is , you and dom might have a valid point. but seeing as its very common , and you should programme your software assuming your customers will have and use all of the most common devices peripherals and the connections they use. especially the devices your software comes bundled with. Besides , this is a problem which has , for me , started since 5.03

are you saying then , that this is a problem that cannont be resolved for firewire users ?

or can you fix it?

if you can fix it , why was it broke in the first place ?

will new problems arise everytime a bugfix is released ?

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:52 pm

LOFA wrote:
Alex wrote:
Dom asked also for the following:
It would be very helpfuls if everyone participating in this thread checks the kernel_task and the system performance in general with the process monitor with a.) onboard audio (it is important to really pull the firewireplug) and b.) with your firewire interface.
Unfortunately there are no replies to this question so far.

regards,
/Alex
I would like to try and test this but I am too much of layman to understand the request. If this was laid out in simpler terms, like say adamjays performance test, I would be immediately all over it. I would be willing to do anything to narrow down/resolve these problems I am having my fw1814.

Otherwise I am gonna keep trying these work arounds with lightpipe...sigh

Hey Lofa,

In the application folder on osx, there is a folder with utility's.
You can find a cpu meter in there.
Or open the app "Terminal" and enter the code "top"
That gives you the most accurate overview i think.

Cheers

sonsofthehounds · Post by **sonsofthehounds** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:48 am

alex

not our problem really...you are partnered and promoted by m audio in the uk as far as i can tell

if you do not want that association then do not make the commercial association in the first place

fact is the fw 410 is notoriously bad with live on a mac...why is this?

you are 'partners'!

i think your software is fcking excellent actually and i wan to use it to it's full potential on my £1000 powerbook that i bought by my own choosing and i continued to buy live at £250, can you please suggest the best souncard or workaround for optimum live performance on a mac systme that is running pretty much out of the box?

love and peace

sonsofthehounds · Post by **sonsofthehounds** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:34 am

another one following this hasty post......

i'm sure i speak for all on here....

love your software...in fact, if it wasn't for it i would not still be writing tunes

BUT

it is a commercial product,

SO

like any commercial product, it is subject to critcism,

we ALL just want it to be perfect and i know you guys do also

i run a basic slimmed down new mac system

all in all

ableton rules

but

why can't the fundamentals still operate basically?

i understand you guys a re shuffling resources around to gain optimum performance on both platforms

and i don't knlw the fuck how to program software so ah'm gonna have to leave you to it

the fundamentals of live are incredible

and could you please reccomend sound cards that are not 'commercially' sound to ableton and actually deliver the performance you intend YOUR software to deliver

i aprrciate commercial pressures

BUT

it will not be the end of you if you do not satisfy m audio

in fact

maybe it would be a blessing in disguise

the 410 is a cpu drag for live

fck

why does it not work nearly as good as all the other interfaces that are suggested on this board?

why ableton not discuss this with live and suggest a fix?

please

again

drunk post.....yet

i think i am speaking from the heart

you actively

sonsofthehounds · Post by **sonsofthehounds** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:41 am

i mean

'why does ableton not discuss this with m audio and work out a fix'

cuz ah dinna want to shell out another 250 for another souncard

c'mon, it's nae to much to ask, the onboard soundcard delivers way better rperformance on my powerbook

for a 'associate' compannys product that is dissapointing

if you are not 'associated' with m audio in the uk i stand corrected! seriously, i am open to critisicm as much as you are.

soz

have a good yin

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:28 am

hoffman2k wrote:
LOFA wrote:
Alex wrote:
Dom asked also for the following: Unfortunately there are no replies to this question so far.

regards,
/Alex
I would like to try and test this but I am too much of layman to understand the request. If this was laid out in simpler terms, like say adamjays performance test, I would be immediately all over it. I would be willing to do anything to narrow down/resolve these problems I am having my fw1814.

Otherwise I am gonna keep trying these work arounds with lightpipe...sigh
Hey Lofa,

In the application folder on osx, there is a folder with utility's.
You can find a cpu meter in there.
Or open the app "Terminal" and enter the code "top"
That gives you the most accurate overview i think.

Cheers

Hi, thank you and also unusable(?) for your responses. The word kernal does not compute with me, for what it's worth, though I have plenty of experience with the activity monitor. Especially when it comes to using it to monitor live.

I understand that removing firewire devices will result in more accurate data, but without a baseline I am not sure what I should do that will be most helpful. I am willing to put hours into this, and hope others might as well, but I am more effctive in troubleshooting specific tasks, as my version of live gets crackles and pops even without monitoring though monitors and headphones- as of 5.0.2, I get crackles whenever I run logic in rewire or through soundflower as well.

I am just trying to be helpful, and I am hesitant to contribute uncontrolled data.

Meanwhile, Henry Ford, brother... Please chill-out! You are a newer name to this forum (from what I can tell) and your lack of patience, in comparison with that of countless others who have experienced very reasonable errors over the several, courteous, might I add, free bug fixes is a little extreme (IMO.)

While I completely understand where you are coming from, and on several occaision have muttered the exact words to myself, how can you ever expect to go to camp Ableton if you curse out Alex?

It takes two 2 make a thing go right! ... It takes two- 2 make it out of sight

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:40 am

Just a bit of humor to lighten things up on an otherwise serious thread...

I'm sitting in my studio now, hearing pops and clicks again! Damn! After I ditched my M-Audio interface and went mLAN, things had been perfect.

Then I found the source of the clicks and pops... a big, balled-up piece of plastic packaging film in the corner popping and clicking as it was unraveling itself...

On a serious note: c'mon, Abes... I'm sure you're working hard to resolve this issue, but least keep your customers informed and let them know what's going on between you guys & M-Audio.

Post by **Alex** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:43 pm

Hi folks,

to clarify, if we would have a fix for which kind of bug ever we would release it.
If we would have a workaround for which kind of problem, we would release it.

Based on all the information we get and from our experience, this is not only a problem with fire wire audio interfaces form M-Audio. Mac OS X has a built in fire wire audio interface driver that already makes these problems.

So we a trying to communicate on all channels we have to everybody that seems to be involved into this problem.

regards,
/Alex

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:18 pm

Alex wrote:Hi folks,

to clarify, if we would have a fix for which kind of bug ever we would release it.
If we would have a workaround for which kind of problem, we would release it.

Based on all the information we get and from our experience, this is not only a problem with fire wire audio interfaces form M-Audio. Mac OS X has a built in fire wire audio interface driver that already makes these problems.

So we a trying to communicate on all channels we have to everybody that seems to be involved into this problem.

regards,
/Alex

Thank you Alex. This right here is the crucial bit of information that I have been patiently waitng to have confirmed. I have ery similiar problems with both my tascam fw 1884 and my m-audio fw1814. The m audio device used to be worse, but an update to a more a recent driver last spring brought them to the same level. In the last few months however I must say I have noticed some newer problems. If you want me to specify or run any tests I will.

Seeing as how the macintels are coming out soon (rumoured) I hope this get's cleared up. I bought the tascam, which is alsmost the price of a competitve windows based laptop, partially to attain improved audio performance. Though now I am hooked the agregate technology of Tiger, there is always adat lightpipe.

I wish I had heared this verified sooner. I wish I had known where I could find this information and trust it. Thank you.