Midi Timing

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:58 pm

Basically I have been playiing about with Live using midi both to Software instruments and hardware.
I have noticed problems...
Bottom line is the midi timing is very poor in general.
It is most noticable when I am recording breaks into audio,
When recording midi clips into audio clips they are not getting cut as they should do.The first note is somtimes cut halfway by the start marker and loops are off.
Please have a look at the midi ableton some people do use it.

craw · Post by **craw** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:18 pm

yeh ... I second that.

Been DJing for years and when I first seen ableton I thought, yeh, that is for me. I can continue my djing, but at the same time learn about MIDI and try to break into production ... all with the same application ... which is nice because I have very little money!

Man oh man this had been frustrating!

For DJing live is simply amazing. Once you learn to warp properly, there are no limitations ... I can live with this!

No sound on the first beat (sometimes) ... I can live with this too!

Serious system crashes when using certain plugins ... I can live with this too

strange problems with the arperigator ... I can live with this.

Pops and clicks with certain plugins ... I can just about live with this too.

I can live with all of the problems in Live (and there are many) ... what makes me want to take my own life is the bloody MIDI timing in live.

I HAVE NEVER SUCCESFULLY RECORDED A MIDI CLIP FIRST TIME AROUND ... the notes are always off ... always. I have tried everything mentioned on this forum with regards to MIDI timing. In the end I have to manually edit everything, and then it is just shit. Firstly because I kill the groove. But most importantly, the music no longer flows in my studio. I have to stop and edit everything manually. Shit.

It cost me 500 bucks for a broken sequencer (i.e., live) ... I gave you the last of my money ableton ... It took me 1 year to save it ... now I cant afford another sequencer.

So, in the end my foray into the world of electronic music production has been a disaster due to this poor MIDI timing. Now I just have a fancy DJ system ... but hey, I already had a set of 1210's and a vestax. So now I have 2 fancy DJ systems.

If Live was advertised as a work in progress I wouldn't be bothered. I would know the risks before I parted with my cash. But it isn't. The marketing is very slick and one is left with the impression that the program is the best on the market and the choice of professionals. Just how these proffesionals record MIDI clips IS BEYOND ME.

But, hey, marketing is a 2 way street. I have just read with interest the job advertisement for a marketing dude at ableton. I noted that ableton are well aware that their biggest marketing tool is 'word of mouth'. Well, since computers have been getting very powerful in the past few years, people are finally realising that music production using only software is becoming feasible. Almost everybody I know is looking for a software music production suite. I must say, I recomend live to nobody ... I am sure that I am not alone.

Remember ableton ... word of mouth can be a negative thing as well!

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:52 pm

i too am dissapointed with the midi timing of live 5.02, it seems that the tech-heads at ableton cant work on a problem unless they can re-create it on their own machines.....which is lame if you ask me. I bought ableton live 5 on the strength of how live 4.1.4 worked.....i just wish i could use live 4.1.4 untill they get 5 working smoothly....

how_gauche · Post by **how_gauche** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:57 pm

I have the same problem. Is there a control I can use somewhere to adjust the incoming midi latency? When I am playing my midi keyboard along to the music everything sounds good but when I look at the clip I just recorded everything is delayed by 50ms or so.

marsh240sx · Post by **marsh240sx** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:13 pm

henry ford wrote:i too am dissapointed with the midi timing of live 5.02, it seems that the tech-heads at ableton cant work on a problem unless they can re-create it on their own machines.....which is lame if you ask me. I bought ableton live 5 on the strength of how live 4.1.4 worked.....i just wish i could use live 4.1.4 untill they get 5 working smoothly....

How can someone be expected to fix a problem that they can't re-create. Not to say their isn't a problem. But thats kinda like taking your car to a machanic for an intermitent issue with the car and when you get there the issue isn't occuring. You can't fix what isn't broken, or what you can't see broken rather.

jerryc · Post by **jerryc** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:18 pm

i'm wondering if you have quantizing on or off. have you tried recording your midi clip and then going into the edit menu immediatly after and hitting undo record quantization?

how_gauche · Post by **how_gauche** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:21 pm

jerryc wrote:i'm wondering if you have quantizing on or off. have you tried recording your midi clip and then going into the edit menu immediatly after and hitting undo record quantization?

Quantization is off, of course.

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:33 pm

marsh240sx wrote:
henry ford wrote:i too am dissapointed with the midi timing of live 5.02, it seems that the tech-heads at ableton cant work on a problem unless they can re-create it on their own machines.....which is lame if you ask me. I bought ableton live 5 on the strength of how live 4.1.4 worked.....i just wish i could use live 4.1.4 untill they get 5 working smoothly....
How can someone be expected to fix a problem that they can't re-create. Not to say their isn't a problem. But thats kinda like taking your car to a machanic for an intermitent issue with the car and when you get there the issue isn't occuring. You can't fix what isn't broken, or what you can't see broken rather.

no , its like taking your car to the MANUFACTURER , and the boys in the garage ignore your car , cos theirs works fine.

you dolt.

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:37 pm

you'd think that the people who make the software , and take your cash , can at least guess what part of the programme is malfunctioning , given the exact details and spec of my machine. if they cant even narrow the problem down to one area or so of their programme , and go over it again.....then thats no good. no good. no good. no good. its piss poor infact.

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:41 pm

this is my main issue with live 5.02 at the moment.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28402

there are other little annoying things , but i'd like to see this fixed first

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:47 pm

maybe theyre using some kind of modular programming environment ? like visual basic or something ? maybe thats why they cant speculate on how to fix something ? maybe they're just re-creating patches they make in MAX/msp in visual basic.... ?

i dunno.

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:45 am

henry ford wrote:i too am dissapointed with the midi timing of live 5.02, it seems that the tech-heads at ableton cant work on a problem unless they can re-create it on their own machines.....which is lame if you ask me. I bought ableton live 5 on the strength of how live 4.1.4 worked.....i just wish i could use live 4.1.4 untill they get 5 working smoothly....

<bump for MIDI timing!>

I've got 4.14, 5.01 and 5.02 on the same machine - the latter two at the moment are still relegated to testing. Tho' I love many of the new features, and would like to be using them, there's just too many instabilities and quirks for me to be using professionally : MIDI timing and monitoring/latency 'wierdness', memory demands, .als just crashing and overall a decrease in perfomance/application fluidity & responsiveness from 4.14 .

Fingers crossed for a new update soon guys

pix · Post by **pix** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:24 am

Another one pissed off with midi implementation.

Timing is awful, losing sync everitime. Specially when you add plug ins with latencies etc.

Another prblem I've been fighting with is that I usually get erratic midi CC info into my midi clips. Does this also happen to you?

If I record a midi clip with some knobs tweaked, all other clips in that track will have the same CC# "locked" to begin with. Meaning that if you want to tweak your synth over som recorded notes, the sound keeps getting restarted everytime the clip loops.

This is really annoying.

craw · Post by **craw** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:57 am

No, I don't see any other erattic behaviour of the MIDI implementation in live. My only

major problem is with the timing.

I must say Live is a seriously cool program. Conceptually, Robert Hencke has done a

wonderful job. The user interface is as cool as ice. The routing is amazing. The sound

quality is excellent. The live instruments and effects are good too. And for what it gives

you it is not that expensive! That rant I gave yesterday was just something I had to get off

my chest.

If you ask a DJ. They will tell you Live is amazing.

If you ask the audio technician working in a theatre. They will also tell you live is

amazing

Producers working purely with audio will also tell you only good things about live

Sound designers will also tell you nice things about live.

But, although I find all of the above interesting, I would really like to use live purely as

a MIDI sequencer. Take a look at the kid beyond video. This is how I would like to work,

except with MIDI. I would like to create drum patterns, melodies, lead sounds, etc, on the

fly using my MIDI keyboard, and have live loop and play the clips as soon as they are

recorded ... live and spontaneous! My problem is, as other people have already mentioned, Live sounds good when I am playing, but it sounds terrible when it plays back the resulting clip because all of the recorded notes are offset.

And believe me when I say I have tried all of the tips and advice on this forum (eg. quantisation off, second MIDI track with monitor set to off, PDC off/on, etc.).

And I ain't using a shit machine:

AMD64 3400+, 2GB RAM, 7200rpm HD, M-AUDIO audiophile.

I hope for an update!

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:17 pm

" But, although I find all of the above interesting, I would really like to use live purely as

a MIDI sequencer. "

well , thats what its being sold as.....it should work , and if it doesnt it should be fixed.....no workarounds or any other BS , i believe in workarounds for doing things that Live doesnt specifically do....using workarounds to do things that Live is supposed to be doing out-of-the-box is lame beyond description.

check out this quote , from the introduction to live 5
http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=l ... ur-perform

Live goes far beyond the simple playback of music. With full MIDI control, Live lets you get completely hands-on with every parameter of your performance.

Live puts every element of your song at your fingertips, supporting the spontaneity so essential to live performance. Loop the chorus for another four bars or replace the drum part on the fly without ever missing a beat. Record loops on the fly and go into instant playback, completely in sync. <----true for samples

when thats true for midi, i'll be satisfied and will return to showering the abes with praise and an almost over-zealous fanatacism...like when i used 4.1.4

PS: on my machine...not the abes

PPS: i'm waiting on a new pc , when that arrives i'm going to format my current machine , to see if that helps the situation.