Looping audio clips to playback without warping

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:30 pm

i understand, but i was talking about situations with samples playing at original pitch. someone (can't remember who) had demonstrated some examples of re-pitch not phase-cancelling, and that beats mode was the only one which was safe at original tempo.

i might have a hard time finding the thread

Cryptic UK · Post by **Cryptic UK** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:36 pm

forge wrote:????

what option?

seriously, what are you asking for?

well what the title of this post says.....im serious

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:37 pm

yeah I know the thread you mean, but those phase cancellations in my experience are more noticeable in beats mode

repitch has definitely been the most reliable for me whan only looping with no timestretching

Cryptic UK · Post by **Cryptic UK** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:41 pm

Looping audio clips to playback without warping mmmmmmmmm nice.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:42 pm

Cryptic UK wrote:
forge wrote:????

what option?

seriously, what are you asking for?
well what the title of this post says.....im serious

read the last couple of posts I've made, it's been explained pretty well

you arent going to get anything more than that

repitch mode IS what you're asking for

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:50 pm

Cryptic UK wrote:Looping audio clips to playback without warping mmmmmmmmm nice.

forge wrote:
there is a fundamental of digital audio to understand here:

repitch mode operates on a very basic level of speeding up or slowing down the sample rate while the output sample rate stays constant - which means the audio quality will not change one single iota because there is absolutely no timestretching involved

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:02 pm

forge wrote:yeah I know the thread you mean, but those phase cancellations in my experience are more noticeable in beats mode

repitch has definitely been the most reliable for me whan only looping with no timestretching

i think this is what i was remembering:

melocoton wrote:
dj superflat wrote:unclear re repitch (the latter has never come up before as one that changes sound, so i'm not buying it without more proof)).
I made a video demonstrating the different warp settings and the fact that repitch doesn't always cancel. It's a little boring and maybe a bit confusing but I can explain what's going on step by step if anyone cares.

http://ultrashare.net/hosting/fl/a88b195057/

Cryptic UK · Post by **Cryptic UK** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:12 pm

forge wrote: repitch mode IS what you're asking for

Ohhhh no its not.

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:30 pm

Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

paradiddle · Post by **paradiddle** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:14 pm

You are totally right.

forge wrote: read the last couple of posts I've made, it's been explained pretty well

you arent going to get anything more than that

repitch mode IS what you're asking for

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:32 pm

Cryptic UK wrote:
forge wrote: repitch mode IS what you're asking for
Ohhhh no its not.

Ohhhhh yes it is

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:47 pm

here was Ingo's comments in the "Live sound quality" thread - I think the one Longjohns was referring to where he mentioned using beats was a different one but I cant remember what it was

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 847#353847

Some remarks concerning unwarped playing
for warpmodes when the file tempo equals song tempo:

Unfortunately there is currently no indicator in the gui when
file tempo or song tempo are cut of after the second decimal.
So they might well differ a small amount, even though they
seem to be equal. This is what i assume to
be the case shown in the video.

In fact, even for such small differences in the tempo
this will not immediatly lead to warping for most warp modes,
they propably will make a different decision as to what grain
is played at some points but for most of the time will just
play unwarped with a constant sample offset resulting
from such decision.

There seems to be a quirk in the "tones" warper that
causes such an offset quite from the beginning.

"Repitch" starts pitching the sample to accomodate the
small tempo difference, and in effect diverts
more and more from the unwarped sample.

"Complex" mode is different from all others in that it
does no "grained" playing of the existing material.
It performs a time base analysis and transformation
of the input material. Furthermore "complex" also
does the resampling necessary for
sample rate conversion. In effect it diverts in almost all
cases from the "unwarped" sample.

Independed of the above i experienced single sample
offsets (from jitter) between warped and unwarped after subsequent
starting and stopping with "Shift+Space".

For the time being (meaning as long as there are no
envelopes for unwarped clips, no "clip tempo to song tempo" button)
i suggest the workaround:
- use more or less integral clip tempo
(equaling song tempo, naturally)
- use beats mode

I hope this was helpful,

regards, ingo

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:15 am

so, once again, the answer is beats, not repitch as many (naturally) think. or do i read ingo wrong?

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:04 am

precisely. beats it is

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:00 am

he he somehow I missed the bit at the bottom about beats, I was looking for other posts where he said it!

I was sure I'd noticed stepping on pads and other non rhythmic material in beats mode in the past but I guess I remembered it wrong

I'm probably actually talking about maybe even a couple of years ago since I would have last used beats on non rhythmic stuff so I guess that's hardly surprising

I guess he said not to use repitch is because as there is a chance no matter how small that the pitch will vary and you would assume that it's undesirable

and over the course of a longer file maybe toward the end it would become more noticable

I guess when we're talking about values after the second decimal place it starts to become pretty academic though really

I've certainly never noticed it in all this time I've been using repitch for non rhythmic stuff

so what is everyone wanting unwarped looping for then?