Rendering to disk DEGRADES SOUND QUALITY!!!

weezy · Post by **weezy** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:33 am

Having a major problem here, when I render to disk with to 24/96 (this is what the sample was originally recorded at as well) the sound quality is noticably different when compared to the original sample before going through ableton.

One thing I had before is the version that came with my digi 002 bundle and then I upgraded later to the 5 version. I noticed this before when using the earlier version and I thought upgrading to 5 would solve this problem but it is still there...

anybody have any idea??

husker · Post by **husker** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:08 am

Are you warping the 'original sample', that will degrade the quality (be definition). Are you just loading the clip and rendering? What aspect is degraded? Any effects, level, gain changes?

blank · Post by **blank** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:07 am

Try using the resampling function and open your loop with and audio editor to save it

a bit pain in the ass method but its far better that way for me.

My only probs is live afetr reopening the saved file will most of the time detect the wrong tempo so u have to do some markers setttings.

hope it will help

another good way is to use rewire with bidule audio recorder.

weezy · Post by **weezy** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:45 am

Blank:

I'm not infront my abelton right now, but do you mean, once I'm happy with the warping I've done on the sample, do you mean resample it with a functio within ableton? Or press the edit button to open the external editing software (mines is soundforge) and resample it in there?

What I can definetly hear is I guess it can be called "digital distortion." Where the sample after its warped doesn't sound crips, even though I kept the tempo at the original but just warped things like the snares and kicks to hit on tempo. I figured that shouldn't alter the "quality" almost at all but it definetly does...

Man I thought ableton was like god sent but itts turned out to not be...I hope so far..I hope im doing something wrong!

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:06 am

redering to disk rocks
i never normalize!

raapie · Post by **raapie** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:59 am

describe the steps you're doing so we can reproduce it. there should not be a difference between live and rendered version.

melocoton · Post by **melocoton** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:09 am

even though I kept the tempo at the original but just warped things like the snares and kicks to hit on tempo. I figured that shouldn't alter the "quality" almost at all but it definetly does...

Well obviously if you're warping the audio at all that's going to affect the quality. I have no idea why you're blaming it on render.

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:17 am

i have no peoblems with render at now that i have sorted out my "clicking" problems.

blank · Post by **blank** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:20 pm

weezy

you can put an audio track in resampling mode and the track will record the master ( with send effect ect).

Live have a pretty good internal quality, the problem is the render to disk function.

Maybe ableton will a day or another notice its the 30000 post about that and they will add a real time rendering ( that's equal to resampling in fact) with nice audio quality and live will become a real standalone apps.

have fun

glsimonsen · Post by **glsimonsen** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:18 pm

Yeah, Ableton Live is cool, but their render to disk is crap. Just about makes the software unusable for my purposes. I use resample and then record into DP. The ableton render function works okay if you aren't using any effects plugs or time stretching stuff. Don't know if I'd have bought Ableton if I'd known this in advance.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:30 pm

blank wrote: Maybe ableton will a day or another notice its the 30000 post about that and they will add a real time rendering ( that's equal to resampling in fact) with nice audio quality and live will become a real standalone apps.

have fun

???? whats the difference between "real time rendering" and recording the master out.

Also, why does the render function sound perfectly fine to me?

.lm.

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:45 pm

Some info from a thread i started yesterday.

"I loaded a track that I had rendered in live into a track in live and disabled the warp features. I then opened the same file in soundforge and reversed the phase of the recording. I then saved it as a new file and loaded it into a second audio track in live. I them played the two tracks in sync at the same time and as it should it resulted in zero db at the master. Ok so reversing the phase with the same file totaly cancels out one another out, good.
Ok so I then took the same rendered audio file (not phase reversed) and resampled it to a second track. I then reversed the phase of that file to see if there would be anything to be heard and again there was nothing at all. What this means is that the two files are EXACTLY the same to the bit as one is the exact opposite of the other. So in the end (IMOP) rendering to disk and at least resampling result in exactly the same thing.

Take it for what it is worth but I feel that rendering to disk is not causing any change in my tracks.

Peace"

blank · Post by **blank** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:54 am

K

atomic i admit you have a point here but the fact is that when i'm making loops in live and use render to disk to get them out for further use in some other liveset i obtain more aliasing in certain case ( especially drumloops).

I don't have that aliasing problem when i use resampling ( or recording the master bus).

The difference is not THAT big, but there is one.

I'll do your phase trick for sure on some stuff i've noticed the probs to see what's going out

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:39 am

Hey blank

I am totaly intrested if you find cases where there is a difference. Being informed is always good. I am thinking that at least with the phase test you can find out for sure if there is a difference. It takes it out of your head and makes it math so for once we may get some answers as opposed to just sitting around saying "do you hear a difference? I dont here a difference" and so on.

peace

weezy · Post by **weezy** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:58 pm

I am definetly going to try the resampling within live.

But basically what I do is I load the sample into live, warp it, I usually use "beat" and "1/4" (because I can hear it produces less "extra junk" than setting to 1/16 - I usually set it at 1/4 regardless of how long the sample is)

Once I get my sample all warped up, and I playback just to make sure the tempo is going good, I can definetly hear "akward" sounds here and there, when I compare to the original sample its definetly not there. Thats what pisses me off!

Because everybody raves about this software, but if your serious serious about ur music, you can't be satisfied with this result - and I think there are alot of people out there that agree. There's no excuses when your playing your tracks to people, its either on point then and there or go home!

The thing that bugs me is that I am only trying to line up the snares and kicks to the ORIGINAL tempo so I figured its not even really timestretchign drastically (I would understand the fault in quality if I was trying to time stretch a 80bpm sample to 110bpm).

Anyway I'm going to try the resample technique, hope it works!