Well, the point I was/am making is that to my ears at least there is quite a noticeable difference in sound quality. I am not trying to annoy anyone. What I originally asked was if anyone else noticed or is it just me?
I would have to disagree with you AdamJay that you can't say that what DAW sounds better than another when there is clearly a difference in quality (at least to my ears).
Please let me EMPHASISE that I LOVE Ableton, but the audio engine of Cubase SX and Logic is "better," (again to my ears).
If I can describe it. Ableton sounds a bit muddier compared to the other two programs I use.
Sound Difference Quality In Logic, Cubase and Live.
umm....no.ishimaru wrote:Monitors people. If your mix sounds muddy it's more likely the output than anything. Save your pennys/euro/yen/pocka shells and buy some kick ass monitors. Seriously.
This has nothing to do with monitors. Furthermore, yes, I realize PT doesn't have a perfect summing buss, nor does any sequencer, but the subject here is the sound of Ableton. People, when this subject surfaces, do realize that we are not dissing Live's sound. When you don't compare it to anything else and work away, and write good tracks, then it doesn't fucking matter, Live sounds absolutely fine. If you do happen to render the tracks and mix elsewhere, then the difference becomes obvious (some will argue, in which case, more power to them). So, don't answer back with this "it's the monitors" and "gee, have you heard what they're saying* about the ProTools engine on those other forums"
*Obvious problem: too many peeps relying on hearsay and not listening.
Quite frankly, I don't find much wrong with PT's mix buss, it is what it is. Sure, it'll never be like mixing down through a great analog board with great processing, effects, AD and DA converters, and printed to 2", but for cryin' out loud, it's not so bad and definitely more open and clear than Live's summing buss. Again, this does not mean it's better, it simply means it sounds different, nothing more and nothing less.
All that said, true dat, a good song is a good song, period, doesn't matter what tools were used to record it.
Last edited by hat on Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here here hat, has anyone had any luck rewiring Live into the new version of Samplitude?hat wrote:Yeah, it's been discussed before, but the more often it's brought up, the more we see that the truth is out there. Live is great, but the summing buss isn't as clear and detailed as other sequencers (ProTools in my case). Start adding many tracks, processing & fx, and you lose definition rather quickly. Render each track from Live and mix it elsewhere and the difference is striking. More open, more detail, like lifting a veil from the monitors.
Despite all that, I can't use anything other than Live to compose with, it's just an amazing program.
Their audio engine is suppose to be really good.
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what difference are you hearing and how do you notice it? are you using tracks without effects and no dithering added?
I don't think there's a difference between DAW's or if there is a difference it's probably a hard bits versus floating point or something very small. please check: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... /3369/0//0
I don't think there's a difference between DAW's or if there is a difference it's probably a hard bits versus floating point or something very small. please check: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... /3369/0//0
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globalgoon
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:52 am
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if people can describe what they are hearing, that's step1. but in general people say some app. lacks highend or punch and that's nonsense. most people won't be able to detect differences between 16 and 24 bit or 44.1 and 96 kHz anyway.
we're not trying to record a violin here, are we?
we're not trying to record a violin here, are we?
Re: ..
raapie wrote:what difference are you hearing and how do you notice it? are you using tracks without effects and no dithering added?
I don't think there's a difference between DAW's or if there is a difference it's probably a hard bits versus floating point or something very small. please check: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... /3369/0//0
Solo track, with or without effects, nothing on Live's Master Fader.
Render to disk.
Import said tracks into ProTools (whatever app you choose).
Don't add anything, don't take out anything.
Just listen.
Jesus f***ing christ it's not rocket science. How many times do we have to reitirate that it just sounds different, not necessarily better or worse. No math involved, no sample rate or bit depth discrepancies (I'm always at 24/44.1, no matter the program), just use your ears, no need for technicalities, it sounds more 'open', more 'detailed', more 'crisp', fuck me, what other adjectives would you rather hear!If people can describe what they are hearing, that's step1. but in general people say some app. lacks highend or punch and that's nonsense. most people won't be able to detect differences between 16 and 24 bit or 44.1 and 96 kHz anyway.
AGAIN, if you don't hear a difference between Live and another DAW, then so be it, move on to another thread and let this one be. All we're saying is that generally speaking, for me - and obviously many others - there's a difference in the way Live sums it's mix output in contrast to other sequencers.
As better the monitors as worse for Live in the direct comparison...ishimaru wrote:Monitors people. If your mix sounds muddy it's more likely the output than anything. Save your pennys/euro/yen/pocka shells and buy some kick ass monitors. Seriously.
actually the ongoing believe that there is no sound degeneration by using live... a realtime granular looper... is maybe caused by bad monitors...on my laptopspeakers i dont hear a difference...
and another point... some people are used to a certain soundquality... and the dont get what is good sound or bad sound..as long as it sounds the way they are used to its allwright... i know i guy that spend 50000 in monitors and he mixes a sound as he know it from his tapedeck in the car...he really got it...sounds exactly like on the old tapedeck in the car...nothing you would like to master...but he loves it...
You can have this coversation about any DAW.
Live will sound different then protools,logic,......
Cubase will sound different then Live, digital performer,....
So the discussion should not really be about which sounds different.
But more about if Live sounds better or worse to you and why.
The only proof people have is that it sounds different to "them".
Live will sound different then protools,logic,......
Cubase will sound different then Live, digital performer,....
So the discussion should not really be about which sounds different.
But more about if Live sounds better or worse to you and why.
The only proof people have is that it sounds different to "them".
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the only thing would be to A/B test it.
if I would record some stuff in Nuendo 2.2, Wavelab 4, Live 4... would people be able to tell me the application used?
I am willing to set up a test. I can easily render a track from these applications without any extra effects. I can also do some summing of a few tracks.
let me know if you are all interested. give me details about how these test should be done.
test should be easy for people claiming there's a sound difference
if I would record some stuff in Nuendo 2.2, Wavelab 4, Live 4... would people be able to tell me the application used?
I am willing to set up a test. I can easily render a track from these applications without any extra effects. I can also do some summing of a few tracks.
let me know if you are all interested. give me details about how these test should be done.
test should be easy for people claiming there's a sound difference