Warp Markers to Tempo

monkeyThunk · Post by **monkeyThunk** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:08 am

Just started using Live, and love that I can set up warp markers for a song-length audio sample, and have it synch perfectly to an existing songs tempo changes.

BUT, what I really would love to do is the inverse. I dream of playing a real instrument, say acoustic guitar, first and have that define the desired tempo changes for the entire song, then I could add MIDI percusion and samples that match the human feel exactly, even from the session view!

If anyone knows of a way to do this that I've overlooked, or any external tool I could use to cut this first track along with a tempo track please let me know.

I know this is more of a DAW application than a live one, but the exciting thing to me about live is being able to switch modes, to be able to use session view to interactively compose on top of the first real instrument track, but I need that first instrument track to maintain its life rhythm !

LiveLong · Post by **LiveLong** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:47 am

You can record your track to Logic, create a tempo track/map (I think this is much improved in ver 7), this is the exact same idea of Live markers, BUT the rest of logic quantize and tempo will follow your grid.
Now, try to sync Live as a slave to Logic.
If it works fine, and Live can follow the tempo changes in real time, you might get what you want. At the end of the chain, Live warp engine will follow the "warp markers" of what you played

.

I am not sure if that will work. I don't know how tight is the midi, or rewire sync is for quick tempo changes, and how much it is updated per time.

monkeyThunk · Post by **monkeyThunk** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 pm

Sounds like that could work, but don't currently own logic, do you know if logic express supports creating a tempo/map ?

Hmm, it may be possible to set warp markers on a free guitar track, apply them to a straight audio click track and record the warped version to a 3rd track. Then set warp markers on the 3rd track to bring it back to straight time. These could then be applied to a straight drum track, to bring it in sync (I think...) with the guitar.

LiveLong · Post by **LiveLong** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:55 pm

Hi,
I don't know about Logic express, check Apple site-software-Logic.

I find it hard to understand what will happen, I will try to break it down;
You set warp markers on your guitar track, If it is in Live, than it will become a straight quantize (unless you set the marks for it to sound as it is, and not to dead mach the click). You moved the positipn of your audio, not the grid, and can not do more, as you did the regular warp of Live.
Do it in Logic, as you warp your free guitar track, your warp becomes the grid. the grid has the feel of your free track, and every other track can be matched to that, quantize your drum track to the grid, and it is matched to your free track.
If it was Live, the grid would have the timing/feel of your free track. all others will get that timing feel, and not the straight quantize.

THIS WILL BE COOL, TO CHANGE THE "MASTER GRID" IN LIVE! YOU WILL BE ABLE TO GET ALL YOUR LOOPS/AUDIO TO FEEL LIKE WHAT EVER YOU WANT (without re warping by ear).

Back to Logic,
I think this can be done to both, midi and audio. I am not sure how much work involved, and how good it works. If it comes to you buy the software, I can take a look in the Logic 536789 pages manual, and find out more about how it works.

monkeyThunk · Post by **monkeyThunk** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:52 am

Yes, extracting a song tempo from an audio file would be the best, since then all the qauntization works for both MIDI and audio tracks.

It seems that it would be trivial to add this to Live, with

ONE NEW COMMAND, WARP MARKERS TO SONG TEMPO

This would be incredibly useful and open up a lot of possibilites, later also adding groove extraction would be great.

LiveLong · Post by **LiveLong** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:16 pm

Yes, and groove template also. You chose one loop you like, have the grid stretch and not the audio

What ever you play now will have the loop's quantize feel.

All this shit is in Logic. I will try that in rewire. Tempo map from Logic and audio stretch from Live.
It will work only for tempo changes, not for groove quantize, as the quantize is timing changes for the notes/audio inside Logic, and have no effect on the tempo.

Again. I am not sure the tempo map/rewire sync is fast enough for repetitive "quantize like" groove feel.

I did not check yet, is all quantize in Live for clip launch and midi only

what about triplets etc..

rachmanoff · Post by **rachmanoff** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:54 am

livelong - did you try this? I'm curious to know what kind of results you had rewiring the two together.

also, ableton - it would rule if you implemented this feature in live!! live could be a viable tool for non click-oriented musicians and 'bands' with the addition this one (possibly not)simple feature (as described by monkeyThunk). oh, pretty please?

rachmanoff · Post by **rachmanoff** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:59 am

thinking about this has been consuming me the last couple days.

this feature would be soo good!

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:40 pm

LiveLong wrote:Yes, and groove template also. You chose one loop you like, have the grid stretch and not the audio What ever you play now will have the loop's quantize feel.
...

BUMP

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:09 pm

I would LOVE to mark each measure for lighting, video, and additional percussion to stay in sync, but let the song play at it's original tempo.

Warp mark but leave the song's original tempo.

That would be brilliant.

Otherwise, normal warp markering, and then importing a tempo map would be the next best thing. I've e-mailed Circular Logic about this, and they're looking into being able to export their MIDI tempo maps. For those of you that don't know, Circular Logic Intime generates MIDI timing real time as you play an instrument, or it can capture it from audio. For example, if you're drumming or strumming, Intime will analyze your playing and pass the tempo to any sequencer (great for my sloppy drumming!) So by using Intime, you can create your own groove maps just by playing, or just jam live and let Live's parts stay in sync with your live playing.

Check it out here (crappy demo, but you get the idea): http://www.circular-logic.com/demoVideo ... k_MedQ.mov

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:51 pm

hambone1 wrote:...For those of you that don't know, Circular Logic Intime generates MIDI timing real time as you play an instrument, or it can capture it from audio. For example, if you're drumming or strumming, Intime will analyze your playing and pass the tempo to any sequencer (great for my sloppy drumming!) So by using Intime, you can create your own groove maps just by playing, or just jam live and let Live's parts stay in sync with your live playing.

Check it out here (crappy demo, but you get the idea): http://www.circular-logic.com/demoVideo ... k_MedQ.mov

That's amazing! PLEASE tell me it works real time, and I can set up Live to slave to In Time while I play an instrument... Is this the case?

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:57 am

That's exactly what it does!

Play any MIDI instrument (I think it can even use an audio input), and it will send MIDI clock to Live real-time as you play.

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:17 pm

hambone1 wrote:That's exactly what it does!

Play any MIDI instrument (I think it can even use an audio input), and it will send MIDI clock to Live real-time as you play.

Gadzooks... Sounds cool.

Now if only Ableton would implement Groove template extraction, it would be even more useful.

afriko · Post by **afriko** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:19 pm

Yes,

Warp markers to tempo is absolutely needed
for all musicians who want

live to follow the tempo
of a true live recording.

I have been waiting for this, since Live 1,5
Please, Ableton give us any response.
when this could be done.

We appreciate your work !

Afriko

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:23 pm

I'm sure 'warp markers to tempo' would be easy for Ableton to implement.

Place the warp markers where they are now, but leave the original tempo intact.

It's that simple.