New iBooks vs. existing PowerBooks?????

draff · Post by **draff** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:45 pm

Alright, so I'm ready to buy a new laptop. My existing iBook is at its limits, and I need to move ahead. I was about to fork out some sick cash for the 15" PowerBook when the iBooks were released. The new 14" iBook offers me the following:
1-80 gb HD
2-1.25 gb RAM [which I will upgrade to immediately]
3-Superdrive
4-Airport built in
5-1.33 ghz G4
6-1 Firewire 400 & 2 USB 2.0 ports

My question to you super-power-users out there is do I need a PowerBook anymore? Sure I'll give up a Firewire 800 port, and a pci slot, but are those worth the $1000+ price difference?

Please chime in with some thoughts as I would like to make a purchase quickly.

Thanks!!!
Derek

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:54 pm

Hi,

well, you give up the FW800, the PC-card slot

and

a DVI monitor connector for a second screen, better graphic cards, faster RAM bus (also I do not know what it is worth), higher screen resolution.

If it is important - you have to check yourself.

As there are new iBooks there may soon be new powerbooks G4 as well - or we have to wait longer for the G5 powerbooks.

Best

draff · Post by **draff** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:07 pm

I can deal with the DVI port, the screen resolution, and even the graphics card. But what kind of performance, in your opinion, am I sacrificing in giving up the faster RAM bus?

I DJ from this computer using Megaseg, which I know will be fine, but use Live & Reason for all multitrack recording with the band, as well as composing in the studio, and playing live with the band using some loops and additional tracks along with our live instruments and vocals.

My current iBook has been hiccuping during playback with some of the new studio stuff we're recording, which I can only assume is from the multiple NN-XT samplers running in Reason, plus the 15 or so audio tracks concurrently. I figure if I am going to spend any money at all, spend enough to do it right. So does that RAM bus make a HUGE difference?

Again, thanks,
-Derek

php · Post by **php** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:09 am

I have a PowerBook G4 1.5Ghz 15" and I just bought a new iBook 12" with 80 GB HD and 768MB RAM for sort of a "backup" machine. I tried Ableton Live 4, Absynth, Reaktor Session and Reason on both systems and I don't see a great deal of performance difference between the two. The bus & processor speed is not that drastically different from each machine where you'd see a real world difference, maybe a benchmark test would make the PB look more impressive.
I also like the iBook size and compactness more than the PB and the iBook case is much more sturdy than the fragile aluminum PB case. I'm really thinking of selling the PB and just using the new iBook instead.

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:10 am

I think the iBook 1.33 is a killer machine for the price. I don't use my FW800 port on my Powerbook. I do use the Indigo DJ but that's just personal preference because I didn't want extra units to connect when I DJ, thus the need for Indigo DJ and 7200 RPM Hitachi. My machine double as a workstation that I connect to a Cinema Display so I also found value in the DVI port. Otherwise, the iBook would have been my choice. The bus is a little slower but not too significant. I say go for the ibook 1.33.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:05 pm

well in all fairness to the Powerbook, it hasn't been updated yet. The rest of the apple line has (cept maybe the eMac). The playing field isn't very level right now and that could change in an instant.
its been 188 days since the PB's got an update, and on average, they get an update every 171 days. so they are certainly overdue for an update. Now they have gone longer without updates, and i wouldnt be surprised if their longest period of time without an update is during the transition to G5.
But.. Apple could update them before the year is out with dual core g4 chips at 1.6ghz, or in January / Shipping in February with G5 chips... Its hard to say, as apple is a very secretive company.

Let's say you buy the 1.2ghz or 1.33ghz iBook now, and in 2 months the powerbook is actually twice as powerful as the iBook but only costs 50% more. You may be kicking yourself, but what if they aren't dual core or g5 and they just get another speed bump like the ibook did... say 1.5ghz to 1.7ghz, then you could be kicking yourself for waiting.

So, it can be quite the conundrum. And in a dilema such as that, you have to ask yourself "do i need a new machine now, or can i wait?"
If you can't bare another few months with your G3 700mhz, then by all means by an iBook tomorrow!, but if you can wait, it could certainly be worth your while.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:10 pm

You can hack the iBook graphics card to provide the true secondary output and not just the mirrored out. It's done via OpenFirmware, I'll try to dig up a link...

I've not tried it myself (don't have an extra screen to check if it works!) but I know of people who have and it works a treat. The thing is, the only reason the iBooks and iMacs only have mirrored video outs is a software lock put in by Apple...

-Paws

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:16 pm

same goes for emacs

Fingers · Post by **Fingers** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:20 pm

There's a very long thread on the macosxrumors.com forum that should fill in a lot of the blanks about powerbook updates. Apple has said they won't happen until next year, and the general consensus seems to be that dual core chips won't be ready until later in 2005.

The G5 is only going to get in a powerbook if they cripple its frontside bus, apparently, so it seems dual core g4s are going to be the next big performance leap. I've got a sneaking suspicion the next update is going to be a speed bump and maybe some goodies (graphics card, faster superdrive, that kind of thing).

I'm still plugging away with a 500mhz Tibook - I can wait till Macworld in January to see what happens. In fact I'll miss it when it goes, even though the second fan sounds like a plane taking off and the dvd drive is more than a bit temperamental. But if I was buying now, I really don't think I could justify the extra cash for a powerbook.

draff · Post by **draff** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:44 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone. Keep 'em coming if you think of stuff to add. I have another browser window open with my order ready to purchase at the Apple store. For some reason, my hand just won't click on the 'purchase now' button.

Isn't it funny how nervous you get with Apple about spending lots o' cash knowing you might wake up tomorrow, go to Apple's home page [like most of us do daily] and see "Twice The Fun. The new Dual-G4 Powerbooks." or some typically catchy Apple headline that makes you feel like an idiot for not waiting ONE MORE DAY?!?

I think I better just buy it, and stop stressing myself out. Right? RIGHT?!?

generic · Post by **generic** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:30 pm

i think all powerbook users are asking themselves the same tough questions. i know i am. i love my dvi-667mhz pb. but when i go to the apple store and see the aluminum cases i get the urge to buy one. it's hard to resist.

just for kicks i configured a new pb. on apples site. with every feature, i would get if money was no object. apparently my dream mac would cost me $3,600 plus. so it's also an evpensive urge...

later
e

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:41 pm

draff wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone. Keep 'em coming if you think of stuff to add. I have another browser window open with my order ready to purchase at the Apple store. For some reason, my hand just won't click on the 'purchase now' button.

Isn't it funny how nervous you get with Apple about spending lots o' cash knowing you might wake up tomorrow, go to Apple's home page [like most of us do daily] and see "Twice The Fun. The new Dual-G4 Powerbooks." or some typically catchy Apple headline that makes you feel like an idiot for not waiting ONE MORE DAY?!?

I think I better just buy it, and stop stressing myself out. Right? RIGHT?!?

DONT DO IT!!! You'll kick yourself!

Personally I love the Powerbooks and was really sad to give mine to my girlfriend but at the moment there's no way I'd spend out on a new iBook or Powerbook because it's bewildering that they are so far behind on the performance front - some people have said Apple might end up biting the bullet and going more to the PC style chip architecture in the end and I cant quite understand why they dont - I'm sure G5 is great but shit a 64bit Athlon would eat it alive - it seems a bit like stubbornness to still be trying to come up with their own when there are PC based technologies that have come an insanely long way. Kind of like re-inventing the wheel.

[open can of worms] If you really want to spend out now, maybe you should ask yourself if any of your apps are really mac only and really think about when you have them open and you dont see the desktop would you really notice or care what OS etc you have ticking away in the background???

[/open can of worms]

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:47 pm

Cos Apple have technicians that have been working with IBM/Motorola chips for twenty five years, maybe?

Also, it's like to be cos they know that what sells Macs is in part the design, and in part the Operating System, so making it easier to run the OS on 686-type processors would be sawing off their own branch, really. Macs are a package deal, that's their strong point... OSX know which kind of graphics cards and other things to expect, unlike Windows which is more of a Superglue for all the different makes of hardware out there

-Paws

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:52 pm

noisetonepause wrote:Cos Apple have technicians that have been working with IBM/Motorola chips for twenty five years, maybe?

Also, it's like to be cos they know that what sells Macs is in part the design, and in part the Operating System, so making it easier to run the OS on 686-type processors would be sawing off their own branch, really. Macs are a package deal, that's their strong point... OSX know which kind of graphics cards and other things to expect, unlike Windows which is more of a Superglue for all the different makes of hardware out there

-Paws

Not sure about that - most PC laptops have their graphics cards etc well integrated with windows

surely if they could see that their product is seriously behind the majority of the competition in the 'computer' world (regardless of mac or pc that's their industry) they would do all they could to catch up - Alot of money has gone into research out there in PC land - collectively alot more than Apple could have possibly afforded alone - and that's what would happen in any other competitive business - I'm sure car companies pay close attention when another comes up with anything that would imrpove performance and try and improve on it - all the bigname PC laptop makers like HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony and so on all have their drivers etc well integrated into windows and work remarkably well these days - so in other words wouldn't it have made more sense to head more in a universal direction - much like usb and other things -(unlike the old mac serial and scsi days where you really had a bitch of a time getting files onto a PC etc)

All I'm saying is most of the apps I use are cross platform and as much as I wanted to get a powerbook because I do like them and OSX alot, I just dont think I would pay that much more money for a machine that can do less - I just want to get from A to B the quickest route and dont really care what machinery gets me there - I'd rather look at live's interface than OSX or the windows desktop or laptop case so it makes no difference to me if it's a mac or PC I just want it to do as much as I ask it to - which is getting to be alot.

A 1.33 ibook/powerbook is alot in Apple terms and that old myth of macs being like double the mhz in P4 is just rubbish - so it doesn't even make it to 2gHz when PCs are well past 3! Thats alot of plug-ins and no matter what anyone says it bloody helps to be able to just keep trying whatever you want in context without bouncing down all the ttime - it gets bloody annoying and uses alot of hard drive space.

Sorry for the rant I kind of just kept typing.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:56 pm

OSX know which kind of graphics cards and other things to expect, unlike Windows which is more of a Superglue for all the different makes of hardware out there icon_wink.gif

i have to disagree with the super-glue analogy as well. i'll disect it 2 ways..

Firstly,
when you are talking about brand name laptops. Compal and Quanta are the two companies that manufacture Apple's Powerbooks and iMacs (G4 AND G5). Wouldn't you know they also manufacture portable computers for HP/Compaq, NEC, Toshiba, Dell, etc.

your analogy maybe holds water when referring to custom built PC desktops. But in the portable world, they all have the same taiwanese parents: Compal and Quanta.

Secondly,
As far as OSX knowing what hardware to expect.... mmmm no,
i think you mean a BIOS. You see BIOS stands for Basic Input Output System, it gives basic instructions as to the definitions of a computers hardware, what it can and cannot allow. Apple has specific BIOSes for their laptops just as PCs do. Furthermore on the custom built PC side of things, OEM motherboards have specific BIOSes that say "this ram will work, these video cards will work, etc." For instance, I called HP support 2 weeks after i got my machine asking about ram upgrades and such and they told me if i planned on going above 1GB of ram to make sure i download the new 2-day old BIOS from their website. When you install a new part into a PC, if the driver isn't already in the OS's list OR the BIOS then you use the driver disk that came with the part. and the exact same rule holds for Macs.

New iBooks vs. existing PowerBooks?????

New iBooks vs. existing PowerBooks?????

post purchase dissonance

Re: post purchase dissonance