which hardware-mixer to use with live (live!)?

LaQ · Post by **LaQ** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:28 pm

hi.

i'm just planning to take my music to the stage for the first time.
among several other things i guess i'll need some kind of mixer. i always avoided buying one, but now i guess i'll have to.
now i don't know: how many ins/outs am i going to need?
i thought about something like this: i put all the live tracks to different outs on my motu 828 mk2, run them into the mixer, where i can insert/send to outboard gear, then.... yeh and then?
i guess in smaller locations i'll just want to go into the PA - so i only need a stereo master out... but i guess when playing in bigger locations (and i'm certainly going to try to do that

) they will want me to give them separate signals so someone else does the final mix. is that the way it works? i don't know..
which mixer would you recommed to me? i guess i'll need about 12-16 ins (live tracks + singer + keyboards + FX etc) and.. well, don't know about the outs (see above).
PLUS: once i bought a mixer, i'd like to be able to use it in the studio as well.... what do i need there!?

you see: i'm confused. please shed some light into this!

cheers
anselm

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:21 am

I think I saw people talking about controller/mixers here http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11794

LaQ · Post by **LaQ** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:26 am

yes i read that, but i already own good midi controllers... what i'd like to learn about are real audio mixers.
anyone? (or another link to another thread

)

2kilo · Post by **2kilo** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:39 pm

LaQ, we're confused aswell

....
I'm no stage guru, just bash out tunes Dj style but...

i thought about something like this: i put all the live tracks to different outs on my motu 828 mk2, run them into the mixer, where i can insert/send to outboard gear, then.... yeh and then?

-Into the the house system...?

i guess in smaller locations i'll just want to go into the PA - so i only need a stereo master out...

-if you are going to have Live + singer +keyboards + FX then even in a small club you will need to mix each element before going into the one stereo input of the club...?

i guess when playing in bigger locations (and i'm certainly going to try to do that ) they will want me to give them separate signals so someone else does the final mix. is that the way it works? i don't know..

-just my opinion [could be wrong here] but I would only give the house desk the main instrument outputs, ie Live [treated as one intrument] keyboards, singer...? You should be able to do a sound check before, to get Live's levels right...? Then the house desk can tweak it as the room fills [tends to change the sound]. Good stage monitors are a must...? I guess you could give the house desk individual control of bass and drums...? But it would be easy to end up with Live fighting the house desk...?

once i bought a mixer, i'd like to be able to use it in the studio as well.... what do i need there!?

-same as on stage...?

I reckon you need to tell us the exact setup, and what you want to achieve, it could get very messy controlling Live +mix desk +FX's...?

I guess, why not buy a cheap soundcraft Folio type mixer? £80 give it test, see how it works in your setup. Its not too much if you decide to ditch or upgrade to some nutter hardware latter...? Or hire a practice room +one of their mixers to test it out...?

Like I say I'm no stage setup guru, but I just try to keep it as simple as possible

... [People here must know far more than me]

Vercengetorex · Post by **Vercengetorex** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:39 pm

LaQ I too have a MOTU 828 MkII and I very much enjoy running all 10 of my analog outputs into my Mackie CR-1604 where I mix my Live tracks. Working this way provides for a great deal of headroom, as well as versatility in dealing with my analog effects and tape machines. I highly reccomend you experiment with mixing this way if you have any analog gear to deal with in your setup, as I am sure you will begin to find a mixer is a rather powerful tool, allowing you to explore new musical ground by introducing more musical devices into your performance.

LaQ · Post by **LaQ** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:56 pm

Vercengetorex wrote:LaQ I too have a MOTU 828 MkII and I very much enjoy running all 10 of my analog outputs into my Mackie CR-1604 where I mix my Live tracks. Working this way provides for a great deal of headroom, as well as versatility in dealing with my analog effects and tape machines. I highly reccomend you experiment with mixing this way if you have any analog gear to deal with in your setup, as I am sure you will begin to find a mixer is a rather powerful tool, allowing you to explore new musical ground by introducing more musical devices into your performance.

yay that's exactly what i want to do

but now one of my main questions is: how much outs does the mixer need? in smaller locations i'll do my own mix and only need a stereo out - ok. but what about the bigger locations with a house desk - is it enough to give them a few submixes or will they want all the signals separately?
should i mix myself anyway in bigger locations? as 2kilo said above it could easily end up in a fight between the mixers.
how's that being managed usually?

maybe to make myself more clear: i mainly want to use the mixer as a musical instrument - to fade parts in/out, to cut parts, to control FX sends, change routings etc. i just wonder if it's possible to have two mixes at the same time - one making the music, and one controlling the sound...

ah i don't know - i'm too tired to speak clearly

i'll try tomorrow...

g8

Vercengetorex · Post by **Vercengetorex** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:00 am

LaQ:
I do understand what you mean....
Typically you would be mixing and EQ'ing your digital sources, including your individual software outs, any synths, drummachines, tapemachines... whatever! The only thing that would be different in a larger venue is thier house engineer would probably want any live instruments (guitar/bass) and vocals run into his board seperate... for feedback suppression and monitoring controll. You would still controll the mix of your production environment, additional electronic instruments, and noisemakers, as that controll can have much to do with your composition/improvisation. A mid-sized Mackie or perhaps a Spirit if on a budget should suit you nicely...
My Mackie CR-1604 is ancient by computer music standards, but it is an old workhorse, and I got it used for only 350$! I have quite an extensive rig, and i am only recently getting close to outgrowing its input capabilities. I would reccoemend you look into its contemporary equivalent the Mackie 1604 VLZ. To me the mixer is a very important element in my studio and live production. I could not live without it.

LaQ · Post by **LaQ** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:23 am

so the house mixer doesn't need my live tracks and fx etc. separately?
that would make the thing much easier and i think the 8 direct outs of the 1604 VLZ should be enough then.
i already tried that mixer once and it really felt good... i think i'll have a look at ebay

but then again: i guess it would make sense separating the live tracks at least in groups like bass / mid / treble, wouldn't it? or what would you suggest? i could use the subgroups of the mackie mixers for that purpose...

thanks!

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:38 pm

Can't you just use you 828 as the mixer? That is what I do.....

Vercengetorex · Post by **Vercengetorex** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:10 pm

Yes, you in fact can use Cue Mix DSP to mix any and all inputs to any set of outputs, however you will not have near the versatility as a dedicated analog mixer. Simply the difference in I/O quantity alone shows that. For smaller rigs however, Cue Mix is a very good option. I personally use several analog tape machines, and the ability to route, mix, and mult my analog sources without ever leaving the analog domain is quite important.