Surround setup for Live
Surround setup for Live
Hi there
I'm working on a project in which I will perform live with 8 speakers connected to the 8 outputs of my sound card.
In my Live set I have made 8 return tracks sending audio to the different outputs. I'm using a Korg NanoKontol to control the send knobs of the tracks, which works fine, though it is a little confusing.
My question is:
Is it possible to map one knob on the NanoKontrol, so that it can make the output of the track run between the different outputs? So when I turn the knob frem left to right, the tracks output will gradually go from output 1 to output 8.
Here's a picture of my setup in Live:
I'm working on a project in which I will perform live with 8 speakers connected to the 8 outputs of my sound card.
In my Live set I have made 8 return tracks sending audio to the different outputs. I'm using a Korg NanoKontol to control the send knobs of the tracks, which works fine, though it is a little confusing.
My question is:
Is it possible to map one knob on the NanoKontrol, so that it can make the output of the track run between the different outputs? So when I turn the knob frem left to right, the tracks output will gradually go from output 1 to output 8.
Here's a picture of my setup in Live:
Last edited by deHaan on Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
not sure if i understand completely and i'm not even sure this would work like i think it would, but i would say maybe setup a rack with 8 chains. under each chain, put an "external effect" device. set each device to use a different output on the interface. then map a knob on the effect rack to act as a chain select knob and midi map the knob on the nanokontrol to control that knob on the effect rack.deHaan wrote:Hi there
I'm working on a project in which I will perform live with 8 speakers connected to the 8 outputs of my sound card.
In my Live set I have made 8 return tracks sending audio to the different outputs. I'm using a Korg NanoKontol to control the send knobs of the tracks, which works fine, though it is a little confusing.
My question is:
Is it possible to map one knob on the NanoKontrol, so that it can make the output of the track run between the different outputs? So when I turn the knob frem left to right, the tracks output will gradually go from output 1 to output 8.
Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
Great idea! But how do map a knob on the effect rack to act as a chain select knob?
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Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
check out
17.5.4 Chain Select Zones
page 239
i'm not sure if that does a great job explaining it though
i also found this on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYQiMtx9tXk
but he is creating the wet dry wrong
he maps the chain selector at 1:55
the problem with the way he does the wet dry is the volume spike created at about half way when he has both chains at %100.
to make a good dry wet knob you should always have the sum of all chains at %100.. never exceed %100. unless of course that is your intent.
the main thing to get out of this is how to map the chain selector and how to set up your chains.
also check this out...
drop in on this at 2:50.. that is when he starts getting into the chain selector
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efv7Ffv1jNc
17.5.4 Chain Select Zones
page 239
i'm not sure if that does a great job explaining it though
i also found this on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYQiMtx9tXk
but he is creating the wet dry wrong
he maps the chain selector at 1:55
the problem with the way he does the wet dry is the volume spike created at about half way when he has both chains at %100.
to make a good dry wet knob you should always have the sum of all chains at %100.. never exceed %100. unless of course that is your intent.
the main thing to get out of this is how to map the chain selector and how to set up your chains.
also check this out...
drop in on this at 2:50.. that is when he starts getting into the chain selector
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efv7Ffv1jNc
Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
Great, thank you a lot, it works.
But there's still a problem:
I cannot make the track change gradually between the outputs. Output 1 abrubtly stops sending audio when the Chain Selector passes into output 2.
I've tried using the 'fade function' for the zones, but this does not work, as the fade ranges control the output of the chain. And my chains do not have any output, as the audio goes into the 'Extarnal Audio Effects'.
That was a bit complicated, I hope you understand me
But there's still a problem:
I cannot make the track change gradually between the outputs. Output 1 abrubtly stops sending audio when the Chain Selector passes into output 2.
I've tried using the 'fade function' for the zones, but this does not work, as the fade ranges control the output of the chain. And my chains do not have any output, as the audio goes into the 'Extarnal Audio Effects'.
That was a bit complicated, I hope you understand me
Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
I have found another way to make it work with the "crossfades" without using 'external audio effect'. It's quite complicated, so I won't write how unless anyone wants to know
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Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
i couldn't drop this hehe
so i think i was successful in making a rack using phase cancellation to create the fades.
and you only have to turn one knob to pan around the 8 speakers
i only have stereo set up but it worked and then i set it up for 8 speakers.
the download link is on this page
http://luxdivon.com/ableton.html
i put some limiters in also protect the speakers.
try it out and let me know how it works and what could be improved on.
edit..
i pulled the link because the rack doesn't do the job..
i'm going to get back to this some day if i ever have my dream surround sound set up
so i think i was successful in making a rack using phase cancellation to create the fades.
and you only have to turn one knob to pan around the 8 speakers
i only have stereo set up but it worked and then i set it up for 8 speakers.
the download link is on this page
http://luxdivon.com/ableton.html
i put some limiters in also protect the speakers.
try it out and let me know how it works and what could be improved on.
edit..
i pulled the link because the rack doesn't do the job..
i'm going to get back to this some day if i ever have my dream surround sound set up
Last edited by bosonHavoc on Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
going to check it out, thanks..........
Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
I would be very interested in hearing how you did this.deHaan wrote:I have found another way to make it work with the "crossfades" without using 'external audio effect'. It's quite complicated, so I won't write how unless anyone wants to know
I imagine that such things will be easier once mfl is out, but in the meantime I am curious how you got past this.
Re: Surround sound in Live - Question
Good thinking with the phase cancellation! However, I think I have found a better way to work it out.bosonHavoc wrote:i couldn't drop this hehe
so i think i was successful in making a rack using phase cancellation to create the fades.
and you only have to turn one knob to pan around the 8 speakers
i only have stereo set up but it worked and then i set it up for 8 speakers.
the download link is on this page
http://luxdivon.com/ableton.html
i put some limiters in also protect the speakers.
try it out and let me know how it works and what could be improved on.
The advantage of my setup, is that I do not use any 'external audio effects', but instead gather the audio in 8 return tracks sending their audio outputs to the different speakers. I think this gives a better control of your output volume, because it gives you a master volume control for each speaker.
I will try to explain my setup:
1) create a new audio track
2) set the output of the track to 'sends only'
3) create 8 return tracks, and set their outputs to ext. out 1-8
4) insert an 'audio effect rack' in the audio track.
5) create 8 empty chains in the audio effect rack. Name them 'Chain 1-8'
6) press 'show chain select editor'out
7) move the zones 8 zones so they are evenly spread
8 ) use the 'face ranges' to create cross fades between the chains (like in the picture)
9) Now click the 'Macro control map mode' button.
10) Click on the 'chain select ruler' (above the chain zones), and map it to the first macro control
11) Click the Macro control map mode button to leave map mode
12) Now create 8 audio tracks
13) Set monitoring to 'in' on all of the tracks (this is easily done by marking all of the tracks, and changing the monitoring setting on one of them)
14) Change 'input type' to '1-audio' on all of the 8 tracks (again, mark all the tracks)
15) now select 'Audio Effect Rack l Chain 1 l Post Mixer' as the 'input channel of the first of our 8 tracks.
16) Choose 'Audio Effect Rack l Chain 1 l Post Mixer' as the 'input channel of the second of our 8 tracks, and repeat the procedure for all the 8 tracks.
17) On the first of the 8 tracks, drag up the 'send A knob' on the second track drag up 'send to B knob' etc...
18) Now group the 8 "in tracks", and set the output type of the group to 'sends only'
19) Finally, click the MIDI Map mode switch, and map a knob or fader on your MIDI controller to the first macro control of the Audio Effect.
You should now be able to move the audio between the eight speakers with one knob with cross fades between the speakers.
Once you have done this, you can save the preset for Audio Effect Rack, and it should be easy to create several tracks with the "surround effect".
Feel free to asks questions if you do not understand me
NB: In my setup there's only 7 outputs, don't be confused.
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Re: Surround setup for Live
you giant geek.
Re: Surround setup for Live
Stoked to look at this tomorrow. When I am sober.
Re: Surround setup for Live
Coolcool, I hope you can make it work
Re: Surround setup for Live
Stadigvæk godt arbejde! If I had more than a stereo pair it would be cool to check it out. Someone once did a surround setup in a NY club I frequented while working there, and it was a bit freaky when the whole room seemed to spin around inside your head, kinda disorientating actually when the whole place was peaking and lights were flashing...
Re: Surround setup for Live
This is one of favorite things to experience. It is quite elegant how logic handles such a task.Furland wrote:Stadigvæk godt arbejde! If I had more than a stereo pair it would be cool to check it out. Someone once did a surround setup in a NY club I frequented while working there, and it was a bit freaky when the whole room seemed to spin around inside your head, kinda disorientating actually when the whole place was peaking and lights were flashing...