[OT] Eckhart Tolle

[Anubis]

Fearing that I've spent most of my adult life as a lemming... I can appreciate where he's coming from. But if you take his concept of "living for the moment" to the extreme then you would essentially turn into an ameoba?

[rbro]

Why do you say that? You can't deny the fact that there is only the present moment.

[Anubis]

Yeah but when he speaks he seems to implore that one should surrender to the (present) moment and totally ignore the evil ego. But then you wouldn't get anything done. I have trouble finishing tracks as it is.

[rbro]

Yeah but when he speaks he seems to implore that one should surrender to the (present) moment and totally ignore the evil ego. But then you wouldn't get anything done. I have trouble finishing tracks as it is.

You don't have to ignore it, you just have to accept it. Why do you need your ego to finish tracks?

[gjm]

Why do you say that? You can't deny the fact that there is only the present moment.

You are right that you cannot deny the present moment, but that is not the only thing that is present in the moment. Any moment in time, however large or small is always a perception. That perception can be traced back through a series of thoughts and events which by and large is unique only to you. Ultimately this will lead you to the conclusion that your view of any given moment is simply your interpretation. Essentially, what is present is the build up of all the sludge caught up in your built in filters of your invisible mind. Its not an 'either or' type of thing. Every present moment action is a reflection of past and future. If you remove the concept of time, referred to by a 'moment,' and take into account that your actions and thoughts are the result of all you are, both experientially and perceptually, then it is better to simply 'Be' than to do anything else. This way, you do not interrupt the essential participation that is required of you to live your life with fulfillment. Problem is though, this always leads to a discussion about 'Other.'

I am bewildered by anybodies claim that the "Moment" is actually anything at all. Claiming that one can 'Live for the Moment', or of having that as a goal is as misleading as saying that 'If you can imagine it, you can do it.'

[majais]

Tolle is so old fashioned...

[tech44]

Yeah but when he speaks he seems to implore that one should surrender to the (present) moment and totally ignore the evil ego. But then you wouldn't get anything done. I have trouble finishing tracks as it is.

You don't have to ignore it, you just have to accept it. Why do you need your ego to finish tracks?

I think you should look at it as "enjoy the act of making the track in the moment and don't focus so much on the end product". Coincidentally I'm reading the book now (no pun intended) and I read this part just last night.

[rbro]

Why do you say that? You can't deny the fact that there is only the present moment.

You are right that you cannot deny the present moment, but that is not the only thing that is present in the moment. Any moment in time, however large or small is always a perception. That perception can be traced back through a series of thoughts and events which by and large is unique only to you. Ultimately this will lead you to the conclusion that your view of any given moment is simply your interpretation. Essentially, what is present is the build up of all the sludge caught up in your built in filters of your invisible mind. Its not an 'either or' type of thing. Every present moment action is a reflection of past and future. If you remove the concept of time, referred to by a 'moment,' and take into account that your actions and thoughts are the result of all you are, both experientially and perceptually, then it is better to simply 'Be' than to do anything else. This way, you do not interrupt the essential participation that is required of you to live your life with fulfillment. Problem is though, this always leads to a discussion about 'Other.'

I am bewildered by anybodies claim that the "Moment" is actually anything at all. Claiming that one can 'Live for the Moment', or of having that as a goal is as misleading as saying that 'If you can imagine it, you can do it.'

You need to separate the present moment from your perception of the present moment. The present moment simply is.

[gjm]

You need to separate the present moment from your perception of the present moment. The present moment simply is.

This is one thing I am unable to do. The present moment is not a thing... its nothing. Its as undefinable as how small is small, or how big is big. Nobody can separate their perception away from themselves, the best they can do is modify it.

Now I say this fully understanding that it is my perception of the situation. I am either enlightened enough to perceive correctly my position in this soup, or not. If not, I welcome an external prompt to alter my core being.

Saying that the 'Present moment simply is' IMO basically equates to a catch all phrase, similar to those used in lots of religions or philosophies where the thought process has come to a halt. These stances are often adopted by people rather than arrived at logically. (Obviously I have no idea how you arrived at it). Again IMO, the clarification should be about how you 'frame' any moment of your life. Its always your choice to work within your uniqueness. A simple example is the glass that is either half full or half empty.

Starting or finishing tracks, or even the concepts of creativity or inspiration is ALWAYS about managing your perceptions. Likes and dislikes, or generally the judgements any one person makes about their own work including decisions of motivating ones self all come from within a person. Its been my observation that those who are successful at things are those who can allow themselves to fully function or 'Be' in the many moments that make up their lives. Uncompleted tasks are often the result of not being able to deal with the thoughts and feelings created by being in the moment. Its not about switching off or resting. The OP correctly concluded that you would not get anything done. Its about being fully engaged in whatever is in the moment with you, so that you can continue the never ending cycle of perceptual modification.

Sorry for the Rant.

[sparklepuff]

He looks like a leprechaun.

[nowtime]

Yeah but when he speaks he seems to implore that one should surrender to the (present) moment and totally ignore the evil ego. But then you wouldn't get anything done. I have trouble finishing tracks as it is.

Practicing presence for me is palpable when I remember, in the rush of things, to just get-here-now. More often than not, I have projected myself into the future - an hour from now when I get off work, or 30 seconds from now when I am done mousing a repetitive task, or 6 months from now when I have achieved a goal. Suddenly I'll wake up and be more present with my immediate sensations instead of trying to muscle through them to GET to something else. My body relaxes, my breath deepens, my sight intensifies, I feel better.

You couldn't "totally ignore the ego" if you tried!

Pulling myself back from the past here into the present can be a bit trickier, especially if I get caught in a depressive state.

[sparklepuff]

Practicing presence for me is palpable when I remember, in the rush of things, to just get-here-now.

shocking coming from a guy called nowtime

[Moody]

Any links available?

[sparklepuff]

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?ur ... le&x=0&y=0

[Moody]

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?ur ... le&x=0&y=0

Thanks!