hehe...you're nothing more then a lowly rat, all you want to do with this discussion is corner me or one-up me...you are no more concerned about these issues then a dog is.
if i tell you whats going on here, you'll just trash it as half assed.
reprehensible scum that you are.
israel is lovely.
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my_volcanic
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 3:28 pm
- Location: derry, the black north
yep - and completely oblivious to your own ignorance & insensitivity. Forget about israel, deal with your own problems if you have the heart to do so.
it might be an idea to keep your glib denunciations to yourself when issues are being discussed...or at least learn to bring something to a discussion. You dont have to agree with something, just provide something more then JUST 'wise up for fucks sake' ..or 'fuck you twat'
you must have some wonderful discussions over sunday dinner....
it might be an idea to keep your glib denunciations to yourself when issues are being discussed...or at least learn to bring something to a discussion. You dont have to agree with something, just provide something more then JUST 'wise up for fucks sake' ..or 'fuck you twat'
you must have some wonderful discussions over sunday dinner....
Last edited by b0unce on Thu May 11, 2006 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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my_volcanic
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 3:28 pm
- Location: derry, the black north
respect & restraint, for a state that provides impunity for its sociopathic 'defense' force.
--------------
Obituary
Tom Hurndall
An aspiring photojournalist and committed peace activist
Carl Arrindell
Thursday January 22, 2004
The Guardian
In the spring of 2002, Tom Hurndall made a journey around Europe, which then took him on to Egypt and Jordan. He was young, a soon-to-be student, interested in philosophy - and most interested in the contrast between cultures. It was a formative experience. Indeed, an abiding image for his friends is of Tom, who has died aged 22, on his motorcycle, cigarette in hand, riding into the Egyptian desert.
Back in England, he was accepted by Manchester Metropolitan University to study criminology and philosophy. But his passion and natural gifts were for photography and writing, which he saw as ways of highlighting what was important in life. So he switched to a degree in photographic journalism.
A year ago, he photographed the million-strong London anti-Iraq war demonstration. During it, he encountered the group planning to provide human shields in Iraq against the threat of attack by Anglo-American forces.
By February 2003, he was in Iraq, having told his Manchester faculty head that he would still make his course deadlines. He was, after all, amassing a photographic record, and writing journals. But rather than sending the volunteers to hospitals and schools, Saddam regime officials detailed them to power stations and strategic targets.
Tom headed for Jordan. There he offered his remaining £500 to provide medical supplies for Jordanian Iraqi refugee camps, helped courier supplies and worked on building temporary shelters. In Jordan, he encountered the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), whose volunteers - committed to non-violence - were working with Palestinians as they faced the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. By foot, taxi and bus, Tom set off for Gaza, with the aim of recording what he saw.
He arrived in the town of Rafah on April 6 2003 and began emailing images of the IDF and the Palestinians back to his family. The tone of his journals changed dramatically. "No one could say I wasn't seeing what needs to be seen now," he wrote.
The practice of ISM members in Rafah was, while waving their passports, to accompany Palestinians as they attempted to restore water supplies, and telecommunications shot up by the IDF, and to prevent the demolition of houses. On April 11 2003 Tom, dressed in a fluorescent orange ISM vest, was at the end of a Rafah street observing an earthen mound where a score of children were playing. As IDF rifle fire hit the mound, the children fled. But three, aged between four and seven, were paralysed by fear.
Tom, having taken a boy to safety, returned for the girls. He was hit in the head by a single bullet, fired by an IDF soldier. After a two-hour delay on the border, Tom was taken to a specialist hospital in Be'ersheva, and then back to London, where he survived, in a vegetative state, until his death.
Tom was the second of four children born in Camden in north London, the son of a property lawyer and the head of a school learning support unit. He was educated at the Hall School in Hampstead, Highfield in Hampshire and at Winchester College before, back in London, joining Camden School for Girls mixed sixth form. Various jobs followed before that first trip to the Middle East and subsequent student enrolment in Manchester.
The initial IDF field report, which went to the British Embassy in Tel Aviv and to Tom's family, exonerated the soldier who had killed him. He claimed that Tom was in camouflage, and wielding a gun. In the face of a clutch of witness statements, such suggestions were withdrawn. Just before Tom's death, the soldier, a Bedouin Arab of the IDF, was indicted on six charges, of which the most serious was aggravated assault, implying no intention to kill. Since Tom was shot by a rifle with an advanced telescopic lens, his parents are demanding that the charge be murder, but they are also demanding the eradication of the "culture of impunity" with which the IDF operates in the occupied territories of Palestine.
According to B'Tselem, the Israeli Information Centre for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories, between September 29 2000 and December 18 2003 some 377 Israeli civilians and 80 security forces members were killed in Israel. Some 196 Israeli civilians and 180 IDF members were killed in the occupied territories.
In that period, 2,289 Palestinians were killed in the occupied territories, with many tens of thousands injured, most of whom have been civilians. From the end of 2002 to the spring of 2003, four "internationals" were killed in the occupied territories of whom three, including Tom, were British citizens. There have only been a handful of IDF investigations and just two convictions, with lenient sentences. Tom's case is a landmark. For B'Tselem's director Jessica Montell, it "has made a real contribution to the cause of greater military accountability".
Tom, blind to nationalities and borders, exuded humanity. He wanted, he wrote in his journal, "to make a difference". He did. He also had an outrageous sense of humour and will be missed, most of all, because he made those of us who were his friends smile. He is survived by his parents, sister Sophie, and his brothers Billy and Freddy.
· Thomas Peter Hurndall, student, born November 27 1981; died January 13 2004
--------------
Obituary
Tom Hurndall
An aspiring photojournalist and committed peace activist
Carl Arrindell
Thursday January 22, 2004
The Guardian
In the spring of 2002, Tom Hurndall made a journey around Europe, which then took him on to Egypt and Jordan. He was young, a soon-to-be student, interested in philosophy - and most interested in the contrast between cultures. It was a formative experience. Indeed, an abiding image for his friends is of Tom, who has died aged 22, on his motorcycle, cigarette in hand, riding into the Egyptian desert.
Back in England, he was accepted by Manchester Metropolitan University to study criminology and philosophy. But his passion and natural gifts were for photography and writing, which he saw as ways of highlighting what was important in life. So he switched to a degree in photographic journalism.
A year ago, he photographed the million-strong London anti-Iraq war demonstration. During it, he encountered the group planning to provide human shields in Iraq against the threat of attack by Anglo-American forces.
By February 2003, he was in Iraq, having told his Manchester faculty head that he would still make his course deadlines. He was, after all, amassing a photographic record, and writing journals. But rather than sending the volunteers to hospitals and schools, Saddam regime officials detailed them to power stations and strategic targets.
Tom headed for Jordan. There he offered his remaining £500 to provide medical supplies for Jordanian Iraqi refugee camps, helped courier supplies and worked on building temporary shelters. In Jordan, he encountered the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), whose volunteers - committed to non-violence - were working with Palestinians as they faced the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. By foot, taxi and bus, Tom set off for Gaza, with the aim of recording what he saw.
He arrived in the town of Rafah on April 6 2003 and began emailing images of the IDF and the Palestinians back to his family. The tone of his journals changed dramatically. "No one could say I wasn't seeing what needs to be seen now," he wrote.
The practice of ISM members in Rafah was, while waving their passports, to accompany Palestinians as they attempted to restore water supplies, and telecommunications shot up by the IDF, and to prevent the demolition of houses. On April 11 2003 Tom, dressed in a fluorescent orange ISM vest, was at the end of a Rafah street observing an earthen mound where a score of children were playing. As IDF rifle fire hit the mound, the children fled. But three, aged between four and seven, were paralysed by fear.
Tom, having taken a boy to safety, returned for the girls. He was hit in the head by a single bullet, fired by an IDF soldier. After a two-hour delay on the border, Tom was taken to a specialist hospital in Be'ersheva, and then back to London, where he survived, in a vegetative state, until his death.
Tom was the second of four children born in Camden in north London, the son of a property lawyer and the head of a school learning support unit. He was educated at the Hall School in Hampstead, Highfield in Hampshire and at Winchester College before, back in London, joining Camden School for Girls mixed sixth form. Various jobs followed before that first trip to the Middle East and subsequent student enrolment in Manchester.
The initial IDF field report, which went to the British Embassy in Tel Aviv and to Tom's family, exonerated the soldier who had killed him. He claimed that Tom was in camouflage, and wielding a gun. In the face of a clutch of witness statements, such suggestions were withdrawn. Just before Tom's death, the soldier, a Bedouin Arab of the IDF, was indicted on six charges, of which the most serious was aggravated assault, implying no intention to kill. Since Tom was shot by a rifle with an advanced telescopic lens, his parents are demanding that the charge be murder, but they are also demanding the eradication of the "culture of impunity" with which the IDF operates in the occupied territories of Palestine.
According to B'Tselem, the Israeli Information Centre for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories, between September 29 2000 and December 18 2003 some 377 Israeli civilians and 80 security forces members were killed in Israel. Some 196 Israeli civilians and 180 IDF members were killed in the occupied territories.
In that period, 2,289 Palestinians were killed in the occupied territories, with many tens of thousands injured, most of whom have been civilians. From the end of 2002 to the spring of 2003, four "internationals" were killed in the occupied territories of whom three, including Tom, were British citizens. There have only been a handful of IDF investigations and just two convictions, with lenient sentences. Tom's case is a landmark. For B'Tselem's director Jessica Montell, it "has made a real contribution to the cause of greater military accountability".
Tom, blind to nationalities and borders, exuded humanity. He wanted, he wrote in his journal, "to make a difference". He did. He also had an outrageous sense of humour and will be missed, most of all, because he made those of us who were his friends smile. He is survived by his parents, sister Sophie, and his brothers Billy and Freddy.
· Thomas Peter Hurndall, student, born November 27 1981; died January 13 2004
read this...emphasis on the word boycott, a coincidence by the way - I just did a simple search and found this:
-------------------
Anti-semite or Islamophobe?
David Hirsh
April 7, 2006 10:20 AM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/dav ... _isra.html
(1) If you heard of an Israeli soldier shooting a Palestinian child, how would you react?
a I would think this just normal. Jews have been murdering innocent children for thousands of years in order to drink their blood. It's an astonishing testament to Jewish power that the rest of the world puts up with Jewish denials.
b I have read somewhere that Israel has a deliberate policy of murdering Palestinian children. It must be true. Israel is unique because it is a child-murdering state.
c I would be very angry. I would want to know more about exactly what had happened. Was it a teenager involved in attacking Israelis that was shot? Was it a deliberate murder - if so, what are the Israeli authorities doing about it? Was it the "collateral damage" of some Israeli attack? Does the story come from a source that I trust? I would understand this event in the context of a long and bloody struggle on which there is both wrong and right on both sides. I would condemn the Israeli authorities for allowing a child to be killed by an Israeli soldier.
d I would think that Israel tells the truth and acts only defensively, so I would assume that this must be either a lie or a terrible accident. Terrible accidents happen in war. This war is the responsibility of Arabs who try to blow up Israeli civilians and who want to drive all Jews out of the Middle East. So it is the Arabs who are really to blame for this child's death.
(2) Why does the media support Israel so much and portray the Palestinians as vicious murdering terrorists?
a Jews control public opinion through the media. They are hugely well organised, hugely well funded and extremely secretive. Something needs to be done about Jewish power worldwide.
b Zionists control public opinion through the media. They are hugely well organised, hugely well funded and extremely secretive. Something needs to be done about the Zionist-imperialist agenda that dominates western governments.
c I think there is quite a lot of demonisation of Jews and Israelis as well as Palestinians and Muslims in the media. Sometimes, particularly in more left and liberal publications, there are pieces that seek to make it normal and respectable to loathe Israel. Often, and particularly in more rightwing publications, there is anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism, sometimes explicit, sometimes between the lines. I think that we need to oppose all forms of demonisation and racism equally.
d I think the truth is exactly the opposite. It is normal for the media to portray the Israeli defence forces as being equivalent to terrorists. The media always accepts Palestinian narratives and sources. The BBC, the Guardian, the Independent and the New York Times are the worst offenders. I fear that liberals do not see anything at all in western civilisation worth defending.
(3) What can we in Britain do to help the formation of a free, independent and democratic Palestinian state?
a We helped to defeat South African apartheid by boycotting it. We can do the same with the other apartheid state, Israel. We should refuse to sell any weapons to Israel. We should refuse any contact with Israeli artists, musicians, academics, researchers, and students. We should squeeze the Israeli economy for as long as Israel refuses to end the occupation and allow all the Palestinian refugees and their descendents to return to their rightful homes. We cannot be moral ourselves if we are complicit in the crimes of Israel, the fascist state. Israeli oranges are dripping with Palestinian blood and we should not eat them.
b We should do what we can to build a movement for peace between Israel and Palestine. We should help and encourage all those movements that fight for peace, within both Israel and Palestine. We should not think of this as a struggle between a good state and a bad state but as a dispute over territory between two legitimate states - both with particularly difficult and tear-stained histories. We should help Palestinians who suffer poverty, humiliation and curtailment of their ordinary democratic rights because of the occupation. We should try to facilitate links between Israel, Palestine and our own countries. We should support a peace agreement that will guarantee that both Jews and Palestinians in the Middle East have the right to live in peace and have the right to defend themselves collectively against future attack.
c Most Palestinians do not want a free and democratic Palestine. They said, by electing Hamas in January, that they want an Islamic state in the whole of Israel and the Palestinian territories. They elected an openly racist party to speak for them. Most Palestinians think that Jews have no right to live in the Middle East. So we should not worry about Palestine but we should worry about Israel. Israel should withdraw from most of the occupied territories, draw up safe and fair permanent borders, and let the rest of the world worry about Palestine.
d There are 22 Arab states. If Palestinians want to live in one of those then they are welcome to leave Israel. If they want to stay in the only Jewish state, then they should abide by the law and be good citizens of the only democracy in the Middle East. Israel should annexe the liberated territories and should not pander to political correctness and Islamic fundamentalism.
(4) Anti-semitism is ...
a The word "Semite" refers to both Arabs and Jews. Therefore anti-semitism is any racism against either Arabs or Jews. The word has been appropriated by the Jews for their own exclusive use. They think that they are the most victimised group in the history of the world and they play on this shamelessly.
b Extremely rare nowadays. There are still some anti-semites on the far right, particularly in eastern Europe. Anti-semitism is strong among the American Christian right from where much support for Israel comes. But there is no real anti-semitism amongst Muslims or people who support the Palestinians. Israel claims to speak for all Jews and so it is quite understandable that some people take out their justified anger with Israel by attacking Jews. They shouldn't do this but this is not really anti-semitism. Most of the fuss you hear about anti-semitism nowadays is caused by Zionists maliciously accusing critics of Israel of being anti-semitic. They shame the memory of the victims of real anti-semitism by doing this. They are like the little girl who cried, "Wolf!" Soon enough nobody will care at all about anti-semitism.
c A racism that anti-racists should take as seriously as any other. It is making a comeback in forms that do not openly break the post-Holocaust taboos and therefore in forms that are not always obvious.
d Anti-semitism has been a feature of Christianity and Islam since those religions came into being as offshoots of Judaism. Christians and Muslims cannot bear to live alongside Jews, who they see as mouthy, miserly, opinionated, secretive, unpatriotic, effeminate (Jewish men), bossy (the women), too clever by half and dangerous. Christians and Muslims cannot be cured of anti-semitism and so the only way for Jews to escape anti-semitism is by living in Israel and making sure it has an extremely powerful army.
-------------------
Anti-semite or Islamophobe?
David Hirsh
April 7, 2006 10:20 AM
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/dav ... _isra.html
(1) If you heard of an Israeli soldier shooting a Palestinian child, how would you react?
a I would think this just normal. Jews have been murdering innocent children for thousands of years in order to drink their blood. It's an astonishing testament to Jewish power that the rest of the world puts up with Jewish denials.
b I have read somewhere that Israel has a deliberate policy of murdering Palestinian children. It must be true. Israel is unique because it is a child-murdering state.
c I would be very angry. I would want to know more about exactly what had happened. Was it a teenager involved in attacking Israelis that was shot? Was it a deliberate murder - if so, what are the Israeli authorities doing about it? Was it the "collateral damage" of some Israeli attack? Does the story come from a source that I trust? I would understand this event in the context of a long and bloody struggle on which there is both wrong and right on both sides. I would condemn the Israeli authorities for allowing a child to be killed by an Israeli soldier.
d I would think that Israel tells the truth and acts only defensively, so I would assume that this must be either a lie or a terrible accident. Terrible accidents happen in war. This war is the responsibility of Arabs who try to blow up Israeli civilians and who want to drive all Jews out of the Middle East. So it is the Arabs who are really to blame for this child's death.
(2) Why does the media support Israel so much and portray the Palestinians as vicious murdering terrorists?
a Jews control public opinion through the media. They are hugely well organised, hugely well funded and extremely secretive. Something needs to be done about Jewish power worldwide.
b Zionists control public opinion through the media. They are hugely well organised, hugely well funded and extremely secretive. Something needs to be done about the Zionist-imperialist agenda that dominates western governments.
c I think there is quite a lot of demonisation of Jews and Israelis as well as Palestinians and Muslims in the media. Sometimes, particularly in more left and liberal publications, there are pieces that seek to make it normal and respectable to loathe Israel. Often, and particularly in more rightwing publications, there is anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism, sometimes explicit, sometimes between the lines. I think that we need to oppose all forms of demonisation and racism equally.
d I think the truth is exactly the opposite. It is normal for the media to portray the Israeli defence forces as being equivalent to terrorists. The media always accepts Palestinian narratives and sources. The BBC, the Guardian, the Independent and the New York Times are the worst offenders. I fear that liberals do not see anything at all in western civilisation worth defending.
(3) What can we in Britain do to help the formation of a free, independent and democratic Palestinian state?
a We helped to defeat South African apartheid by boycotting it. We can do the same with the other apartheid state, Israel. We should refuse to sell any weapons to Israel. We should refuse any contact with Israeli artists, musicians, academics, researchers, and students. We should squeeze the Israeli economy for as long as Israel refuses to end the occupation and allow all the Palestinian refugees and their descendents to return to their rightful homes. We cannot be moral ourselves if we are complicit in the crimes of Israel, the fascist state. Israeli oranges are dripping with Palestinian blood and we should not eat them.
b We should do what we can to build a movement for peace between Israel and Palestine. We should help and encourage all those movements that fight for peace, within both Israel and Palestine. We should not think of this as a struggle between a good state and a bad state but as a dispute over territory between two legitimate states - both with particularly difficult and tear-stained histories. We should help Palestinians who suffer poverty, humiliation and curtailment of their ordinary democratic rights because of the occupation. We should try to facilitate links between Israel, Palestine and our own countries. We should support a peace agreement that will guarantee that both Jews and Palestinians in the Middle East have the right to live in peace and have the right to defend themselves collectively against future attack.
c Most Palestinians do not want a free and democratic Palestine. They said, by electing Hamas in January, that they want an Islamic state in the whole of Israel and the Palestinian territories. They elected an openly racist party to speak for them. Most Palestinians think that Jews have no right to live in the Middle East. So we should not worry about Palestine but we should worry about Israel. Israel should withdraw from most of the occupied territories, draw up safe and fair permanent borders, and let the rest of the world worry about Palestine.
d There are 22 Arab states. If Palestinians want to live in one of those then they are welcome to leave Israel. If they want to stay in the only Jewish state, then they should abide by the law and be good citizens of the only democracy in the Middle East. Israel should annexe the liberated territories and should not pander to political correctness and Islamic fundamentalism.
(4) Anti-semitism is ...
a The word "Semite" refers to both Arabs and Jews. Therefore anti-semitism is any racism against either Arabs or Jews. The word has been appropriated by the Jews for their own exclusive use. They think that they are the most victimised group in the history of the world and they play on this shamelessly.
b Extremely rare nowadays. There are still some anti-semites on the far right, particularly in eastern Europe. Anti-semitism is strong among the American Christian right from where much support for Israel comes. But there is no real anti-semitism amongst Muslims or people who support the Palestinians. Israel claims to speak for all Jews and so it is quite understandable that some people take out their justified anger with Israel by attacking Jews. They shouldn't do this but this is not really anti-semitism. Most of the fuss you hear about anti-semitism nowadays is caused by Zionists maliciously accusing critics of Israel of being anti-semitic. They shame the memory of the victims of real anti-semitism by doing this. They are like the little girl who cried, "Wolf!" Soon enough nobody will care at all about anti-semitism.
c A racism that anti-racists should take as seriously as any other. It is making a comeback in forms that do not openly break the post-Holocaust taboos and therefore in forms that are not always obvious.
d Anti-semitism has been a feature of Christianity and Islam since those religions came into being as offshoots of Judaism. Christians and Muslims cannot bear to live alongside Jews, who they see as mouthy, miserly, opinionated, secretive, unpatriotic, effeminate (Jewish men), bossy (the women), too clever by half and dangerous. Christians and Muslims cannot be cured of anti-semitism and so the only way for Jews to escape anti-semitism is by living in Israel and making sure it has an extremely powerful army.
This is utter nonsense... you sir, are a bigot, and a real gem of an ignorant man... the only reason you created this post was to draw attention to yourself, and rip up everyone that doesn't agree with your idiocy. Please, take your political rhetoric somewhere else...a I would think this just normal. Jews have been murdering innocent children for thousands of years in order to drink their blood. It's an astonishing testament to Jewish power that the rest of the world puts up with Jewish denials.
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djadonis206
- Posts: 6490
- Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA.
stinky wrote:This is utter nonsense... you sir, are a bigot, and a real gem of an ignorant man... the only reason you created this post was to draw attention to yourself, and rip up everyone that doesn't agree with your idiocy. Please, take your political rhetoric somewhere else...a I would think this just normal. Jews have been murdering innocent children for thousands of years in order to drink their blood. It's an astonishing testament to Jewish power that the rest of the world puts up with Jewish denials.
LOL!!!!!
of COURSE that is utter nonsense....lol lol lol! ... heard of satire ? i'll give you a clue, some of those answers are gags. dead-pan, granted, but gags all the same. same as the start of this thread, i feel the word anti-semetic has lost all its meaning hence the list of anagrams, they are about as meaningful as the word itself.
and as for rhetoric.....i'm only concerned with facts, kiddies being shot and families impoverished and how to change that......
by ALL means, lets hear any ideas you have on the issue.
It's generally the last nationality of immigrants to a country that get that label. The culture is not familiar, there is a language barrier, and the already existing community is threatened by the influx. It's happened to every group that has come over to the U.S. There are some pretty negative stereotypes about the Irish which started when they immigrated. Same for Italians, Haitians, Cubans, Russians, and on and on.
Think about it. Who is the biggest bully.
It's always the kids who had the crap kicked out of them at home. So it's unfortunately human nature to perpetuate negative treatment by people who have had the same.
I remember seeing all of these paperback books of racial and cultural jokes as a kid. One half would poke fun at one group and then you'd flip it over and the other half would be of another one. There were lots of them with no one group spared.
Think about it. Who is the biggest bully.
It's always the kids who had the crap kicked out of them at home. So it's unfortunately human nature to perpetuate negative treatment by people who have had the same.
I remember seeing all of these paperback books of racial and cultural jokes as a kid. One half would poke fun at one group and then you'd flip it over and the other half would be of another one. There were lots of them with no one group spared.
3ghz Pentium 4 (Prescott), XP Sp2, 1gig Ram, Dual Monitor with Matrox Millenium, MOTU Traveler, Event EZ8 Adat card. Also IBM THinkpad t40 1.6 1 gig ram
come on, someone concerned with facts and interested to coldly discuss a situation doesn't start a thread by saying "israel sucks"b0unce wrote:.i'm only concerned with facts.
actually, a lot of israelis disaprove their government and a lot of israelis are impoverished. these guys are having a hard time: tourists are scared to go, a lot of unemployment, a lot of desillusion among the youth, but i guess you are happy about that right?
your hate will not make things better.