OT: Guitars!!

funky shit · Post by **funky shit** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:21 pm

nate_D wrote:i just picked up one of these about a month ago. only 300$
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ENL1ABCH/
its great for a first guitar. epiphones do a good job of emulating that gibson sound without feeling like it weighs 300 lbs. but it cost 2x what you were talking about spending. honestly though you're really selling yourself short by only spending 150 on a huge investment. plus you're gonna need cords, an amp, fx pedals, picks, a case (if you want to travel). save up more before you make any decisions would be my advice

nah man!! i just need the guitar :L i have alot of studio gear, not gony record of an amp, im using live!!

So I go to the best music store in town, and well, there sint a really good selection

thanks for the input ppl!

dancerchris · Post by **dancerchris** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:24 pm

YILA wrote:save up and buy something twice the price..the only good guitar for that price is the yamaha pacifica

I second the idea of going to something 2x as much. Cheap guitars are that, CHEAP. They intonate poorly, have poor fit and action and are more difficult if impossible to set up properly. This may mean that the pain and frustration you'll suffer as a result compared to a "good value guitar" could get you to drop playing all together. Ibanez and Fender both make some nice guitars for around $400 USD. Ibanez will give you a great metal sound but you will also need some decent amplification and effects. You can get an old POD 2.0 off of Ebay for around $100 and play that direct into your monitors or headphones. It all depends on how serious you are as a player and you can use a decent Ibanez or a Mexi-strat as a backup guitar as you get better where as something in the $150-200 USD is just garbage after 6 months of serious playing, you'll end up buying a better guitar anyway and that original money goes down the drain.

My $0.02

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:52 pm

dancerchris wrote: This may mean that the pain and frustration you'll suffer as a result compared to a "good value guitar" could get you to drop playing all together.

So true.

jez3122 · Post by **jez3122** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:56 pm

dancerchris wrote:
YILA wrote:save up and buy something twice the price..the only good guitar for that price is the yamaha pacifica
I second the idea of going to something 2x as much. Cheap guitars are that, CHEAP. They intonate poorly, have poor fit and action and are more difficult if impossible to set up properly. This may mean that the pain and frustration you'll suffer as a result compared to a "good value guitar" could get you to drop playing all together. Ibanez and Fender both make some nice guitars for around $400 USD. Ibanez will give you a great metal sound but you will also need some decent amplification and effects. You can get an old POD 2.0 off of Ebay for around $100 and play that direct into your monitors or headphones. It all depends on how serious you are as a player and you can use a decent Ibanez or a Mexi-strat as a backup guitar as you get better where as something in the $150-200 USD is just garbage after 6 months of serious playing, you'll end up buying a better guitar anyway and that original money goes down the drain.

My $0.02

I can see what ya saying man but the way i'm readin this situation is that Funky shit has only 150 to spend on a guitar.... he uses Live to produce music and just wants another outlet for his creativity,
he's not gonna start gigging with this guitar....
in which case a cheap giutar will be fine, if he loves playing it he'll buy more of them... i don't know anyone with 1 guitar, i have 9..

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:40 pm

shit -

buy used, get more for your money. get anything with a humbucker in the bridge position (bridge is the thing that holds the strings onto the guitar body) and get one that makes you smile when you look at it. other than that, it doesn't matter.

bring your friend along to try out the guitar, also bring a tuner.
(practice this on your friend's guitar.)
tune the guitar up
play the notes at the 5th, 7th and 12th frets - are they in tune?
it probably won't be exact but as a n00b you can get an idea what condition the guitar is in.
then play each string from the open note and fret every note listening for string buzz, a buzzing string means the action is too low and it will annoy the fuck out of you.
also put your cheek on the bridge of the guitar and site down the length of the neck, the frets should look parallel, if they're not, the neck is twisted and the guitar is pretty much firewood.

you absolutely will need a guitar interface, you can't plug it into a line in port, you'll also NEED something to emulate an amp, don't kid yourself, the difference is night and day.

I can vouch for the wwww.stealthplug.com $100 gets you a soundcard built into a guitar lead AND it comes with amplitube. that bulge in the guitar lead is a sound card, you select it in Live's preference, plug headphones into it and it's just like you're using your regular sound card.

in time you can spend $100 at a guitar shop and they can fix the intonation (how well ALL the notes can be tuned up), the action (string height) and set the truss rud.

funky shit · Post by **funky shit** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:07 pm

jez3122 wrote:
dancerchris wrote:
YILA wrote:save up and buy something twice the price..the only good guitar for that price is the yamaha pacifica
I second the idea of going to something 2x as much. Cheap guitars are that, CHEAP. They intonate poorly, have poor fit and action and are more difficult if impossible to set up properly. This may mean that the pain and frustration you'll suffer as a result compared to a "good value guitar" could get you to drop playing all together. Ibanez and Fender both make some nice guitars for around $400 USD. Ibanez will give you a great metal sound but you will also need some decent amplification and effects. You can get an old POD 2.0 off of Ebay for around $100 and play that direct into your monitors or headphones. It all depends on how serious you are as a player and you can use a decent Ibanez or a Mexi-strat as a backup guitar as you get better where as something in the $150-200 USD is just garbage after 6 months of serious playing, you'll end up buying a better guitar anyway and that original money goes down the drain.

My $0.02
I can see what ya saying man but the way i'm readin this situation is that Funky shit has only 150 to spend on a guitar.... he uses Live to produce music and just wants another outlet for his creativity,
he's not gonna start gigging with this guitar....
in which case a cheap giutar will be fine, if he loves playing it he'll buy more of them... i don't know anyone with 1 guitar, i have 9..

Spot on dude!!

yeah tone deft, i have a 10 channel mixer, i dont want a new interface, i have the izotope trash plugin, would this be good?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:09 pm

never used the trash plug in but it's a compromise which is inherently not ideal, right?

electric rigs take more time to get going, give it time and you'll end up with some sim software, stomp pedals, an amp, a 2nd guitar, an ebow, all that, it just won't happen at once. first and foremost don't cheap out on the guitar, after that, work on getting tone out of it with an amp or decent software to simulate an amp. one step at at time.

nate_D · Post by **nate_D** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:34 am

a little off topic but i picked up an electro harmonix big muff distortion/sustainer pedal and i've been able to get some early pumpkins crunch distortion (like on hummer) out of it. effects pedals are in a whole different ballpark.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:54 am

hummer - f-ing love that tune, still fun to play after all these years. off to ebay to check prices.

Billy always ranted out a pedal called the Creamy Dreamer, never seen one, some kind of tweaked out phasor/flanger/overdrive pedal.

life's a bummer when you're a hummer...

great lyrics IMO.

Faith lies in
The ways of sin
I chased the charmed
But I don't want them anymore

And in their eyes I was alive
A fool's disguise
Take me away from you

Shame my tongue
Fat with promise all along
But when I woke up from that sleep
I was happier than I'd ever been

When you decide
That your life is a prize
Renew and rivive
It's alright honey
It's alright, yeah

Happiness will make you wonder
Will I feel OK?
It scares the disenchanted
Far away

Yeah I want something new
But what am I supposed to do how about you
Yeah I love you, it's true

Life's a bummer
When you're a hummer
Life's a drag

Ask yourself a question
Anyone but me
I ain't free

Ask yourself a question
Anyone but me
I ain't free

Do you feel
Love is real?

nate_D · Post by **nate_D** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:18 am

dude i saw them 2x in asheville (june 29/30) and then at the virgin festival on aug 5. hummer is definently one of my all time favorite songs evar. everytime i hear it i think of high school (well that and Drown). he also uses a fender blender suppossedly. i don't remember hearing what phaser he used. i read not too long ago thurston from sonic youth had a 5000$ 1970 Ludwig Phase II he used in diamond sea. thats insane.

linkage 2 '94...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hea-pZoLt3g

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:39 am

nate_D wrote:linkage 2 '94...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hea-pZoLt3g

cool, I couldn't fine a good sounding utube, thanks, great link!!!

saw them many times, my favorite live song of theirs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6LQvDbCRH8 <--- 9 minutes of silverfuck! probably my personal all time favorite live recording, no shit. outstanding that it's on utube. there are longer versions too, I lost those bootlegs on tape somewhere.

I saw them in '94 at the Tibetan Freedom Concert in SF, they closed with this, Sonic Youth came on next (battle of the noize begins!!! good times!!)

great f-ing band (my all time fave) for their first 5 albums, after that, zzzzzzzzzzz...

itook4lefts · Post by **itook4lefts** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:02 am

Tone Deft wrote:hummer - f-ing love that tune, still fun to play after all these years. off to ebay to check prices.

i saw them at leeds last week. i couldn't fucking believe it when they played that. one of the greatest live tunes i've ever seen.

like my brother said, billy corgan is the only artist alive who can scare you with what he might do. he might come out and play the greatest show you've ever seen. mayonnaise, siva, ode to no-one, the lot. or he might come out and play "glass and the ghost children". in the end he did a bit of both. it was still a fucking great show.

nate_D · Post by **nate_D** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:44 pm

Tone Deft wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6LQvDbCRH8 <--- 9 minutes of silverfuck! .

watch jimmy chamberlain eat your children... grrrrr
so was that the concert that some guy got struck by lightning? damn and i bet rage and the beastie boys were there too. nice 1!

pixelbox · Post by **pixelbox** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:04 pm

Hey Funky Shit,

Here is reality - you aren't going to sound like QotSA guitar-wise for quite some time. Probably not Ramstein, either. I've been playing guitar for many years, and now I also rebuild/refinish them as a hobby, too.

Since you are on a budget, and a beginner, that Epiphone or that first Ibanez will be perfect, but I'd stay away from the Jackson or the Ibanez with the floating bridge (Floyd Rose). As someone has already pointed out, it's a bit of a chore to change strings as a beginner using a floating tremelo, so if you could just stick with a "hard-tail" or "Wilkinson trem" (a la Fender strat) you'd be much better off to start with. Later when the desire grabs you, you can upgrade to a better guitar (and yes, you can get a great USED guitar for the money).

The Epiphone will give you a thick, warm sound. The Ibanez will probably be a little brighter sounding, and it may have a faster neck which will also give you easier string bending (depending on what gauge strings you use)....by the way, fatter strings will give you fatter tone, but are harder to play.

Since you are going to input your guitar directly into Live, do not expect to sound like Josh (or anyone, for that matter). If you save your money and buy IK's Amplitube 2 or Guitar Rig 2, you may be able to come pretty close.

To finish up, here is a BRIEF synopsis of electric guitar types and their sounds:

Stratocaster - bright, bell-like tones. Used by - Early U2, Eric Clapton, Yngwe Malmsteen, etc...blues, rock.

LesPaul - warm, thick tone. Used by - Aerosmith, Guns-N-Roses, Stone Temple Pilots, The Allman Brothers, etc. - Rock, Blues-Rock, Metal

Ibanez, Jackson, Schecter, ESP - bright, versatile tone, namely a "shredder's guitar". Used by - pretty much every metal band, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Dream Theater, etc. Rock, Metal, Prog. Rock.

Hollow-bodied - bright plus high-mids. The Cure, Foo-fighters, New Order, Joe Pass, B.B. King. Blues, Jazz, New Wave, Emo Rock, Rock.

Hope this helps.