How do controllers and Laptops translate on stage

the_woof · Post by **the_woof** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:34 am

I think it helps somewhat if you have a warm-up act that play traditional instruments first, to get the crowd going. I say that because I just saw Eliot Lipp live and the crowd loved it and moved a lot, and he didn't have any moldover-style antics or exaggerated motions. He just pumped great music and people danced.

@siddhu: there's actually a video on xlr8r of the glitch mob playing in the street in California and the camera cuts to a close up of this guy saying "They're not musicians because none of them can play the guitar." So I'm in 100% agreement with you on that.

Gargoyle · Post by **Gargoyle** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:06 am

siddhu wrote:
mikemc wrote:

4) There is a romantic cultural notion of a bunch of more or less normal people getting together in a garage and starting a band, or the single Dylanesque singer songwriter grappling with his/her mode of expression, and then moving on to become profound and popular. This is a farily sacred romantic notion with a powerful mythos that is widely understood and which is cherished (by myself as well). But, it seems less culturally understood that it should extend to the laptop musician, who after all has to learn some technical geeky stuff just to get things to work.

This is an absolutely fabulous little description of why especially in North America there is such a "hostility" to laptop performances. A really crappy but visually compelling performer will get total props but a brilliant laptop based musician/performer/producer will be ignored.

I find in North America that if a it doesnt involve a guitar(s), it's much harder to get taken seriously.

i saw that glitchmob clip as well, I'd hardly count that paticular guy as speaking for most people I really think it's more about what debu said , it's what you do, for instance siddhu in your post you say "

A really crappy but visually compelling performer will get total props but a brilliant laptop based musician/performer/producer will be ignored."

but where is the brilliant performer part of the laptop musician you are talking about, that's exactly the thing we are all discussing, and like yourself
we all talk about ourselves performing but then when we get into these converstations we say we don't have to perform, or that we're laptop musicians the word perform means something different for us than it does for them, I personaly feel like we should get off of our collective high horses
and get down on the stage and perform. another thing we do is always pick out guitarist like they are everything we should not be but it's just not true, bass players have to perform, drummers have to perform, pianist have to perform, classical musicians have to perform, devo had to perform, kraftwerk had to perform, I could see if we were not real and we were some algorythmic program then maybe we would not have to perform but we are not elecr\tro plankton inside a computer we are human beings who use a computer as an instrument not as a performance. thats just my opinion

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:47 pm

I find it hard to use 'laptop' and 'musician' in the same sentence.

IMO, we need a new descriptive noun... something above DJ but below musician, although it's a blurry area. Then perhaps the public will start to accept what is a relatively new form of musical entertainment.

nepotist · Post by **nepotist** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:25 pm

The way I've started to look at it is this: there are two types of people that will go to your shows...people who know who you are and people you don't. The people who know you will hear your music presented in a different way than they hear it on CD...mixing tracks together with new loops and effects, and hopefully they are into that presentation. Those who don't know you may reject you outright for using a laptop and controller, however I figure if they are at the show they probably have some inkling of what they are about to see...probably not a lot of straight up country fans at an electronic laptop show. Either way I like how laptops are being used these days, and if you are doing something interesting with your music that will probably be enough, especially in Europe where that kind of thing seems much more accepted.

Klinikal · Post by **Klinikal** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:55 pm

Open minded people do not care what tools You are using when You play. All they care is music.

If the music is good the party is going. No music tool will give You good music by itself. So tools doesn't matter.

People who play their songs live, making live arrangements of their own songs, on the fly, live, using loops, sequences, patterns, tweaking sounds live etc. are called live acts or live pa.

Those who are using laptop as a backing module and play live stuff over it on instruments (drums, guitars etc) are called bands. If it is one artist it is a soloist.

People who use Ableton Live like a DJ deck system, play full .wav songs, mix them, are adding effects, some loops etc. should be called CJ's - computer jockeys. You can call them also DJ's - digital jockeys, data jockejs. But they are not live act's/ live pa or a band.

And if somebody have a problem who is musician and who is not then here is what the wiki says:

A musician is a person who plays or writes music. Musicians can be classified by their roles in creating or performing music:

* An instrumentalist plays a musical instrument.
* A singer (or vocalist) uses his/her voice as his/her instrument.
* Composers, songwriters and arrangers create musical compositions, songs and arrangements. These may be transcribed in music notation, performed or recorded.
* A conductor leads a musical ensemble. A conductor can simultaneously act as an instrumentalist in the ensemble.
* A recording artist creates recorded music, such as CDs and MP3 files.

A musician can be self-taught, or learn by formal education in a conservatory or by a private instructor or a guru.

Musicians can be amateur or professional. A professional musician is usually defined as one who is paid to perform, compose or act in any other productive manner related to music, and whose main source of income is this activity. Professional musicians may work freelance, enter into a contract with a studio or record label, be employed by a professional ensemble such as a symphony orchestra or big band, or by an institution such as a church or business (such as a jazz club or a bar).

muthafunka · Post by **muthafunka** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:16 am

Realising recently that hiding the lapper from the audience view might also help solve half of the equation> see the Soulwax live dvd > http://www.clashmusic.com/files/images/ ... -sonar.jpg. That or at least having the lapper at 90º to the audience ie not between you and the crowd.

NapalmBob · Post by **NapalmBob** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:37 am

muthafunka wrote:Realising recently that hiding the lapper from the audience view might also help solve half of the equation> see the Soulwax live dvd > http://www.clashmusic.com/files/images/ ... -sonar.jpg. That or at least having the lapper at 90º to the audience ie not between you and the crowd.

90 degrees is the best option, or closing the lid if you don't need to see the screen (or go Henke on its ass and create an ubercontroller).

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:29 am

I dunno I think I'm with the gargoyle on this one, I've seen people rock shows with a damn old fashioned typerwriter and the crowd loved it cause the dude was playin the damn thing like an instrument I mean it was his instrument and the people didn't need to give him any extra understanding or any freakin brownie points for being a nerd the guy pulled the top off of the case and just went to town.

two very important things were painfully obvious the guy was using a typerwriter and the guy was a musician. nobody fooled anybody. thats what us macbookians don't do, we tell the macbook to perform and put down the people for not being arty enough

booooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnggggggggg.

we still don't treat a laptop like an instrument and we think our controllers make our laptops look like instruments but they don't they make our laptops look like they are being controlled by people who can't play instruments.

I don't think we should hide our computers fuck that I think we should throw them in peoples faces and say heres my damn computer and watch what I do with it when I (PLAY) IT 4 you.

ok this is gonna sound stupid but it's a really good visual example, imagine prince, yes yes that prince mr purple rain, doing a laptop set, now you know damn well prince would rock that shit and no one would even think about the fact that he was using a laptop cause he would play it like mozart plays the piano my point being see the image in your mind when you think of prince and a laptop you can see him playin it like a real instrument he wouldn't be jackin off on a filter knob, that's cause no matter what he touches we have faith that he will play it like an instrument.

pimpleburger · Post by **pimpleburger** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:51 am

Learning an instrument should teach you tone production, timing and syncopation and musicianship such as hearing pitch, intervals and complex harmony.

Playing in a band even if you are an idiot shows the audience team work and being able to play together.

The real PITA for many bands is a dogmatic sound engineer with no ability or deafness caused by too many years of hearing abuse.

On a laptop you operate the laptop. Ableton plays it in time for you. You make no choices as far as pitch. You present loops and operate the program. Because you aren't trained you find that you're at the edge of being challenged by the tasks and you feel like you've earned some goddamn respect! LOLs.

Or maybe you were a musician and you where sick of being in bands where you didn't get things your own way or maybe the music wasn't that great so you went off to fullfil yourself through the laptop DJ route.

I think there is a lot of will to believe in the positivity of the laptop performance, whether you were a musician or are a DJ. But rather than what you'd like to believe about this being a laptop DJ I urge you to develop a deeper understanding beyond that.

So beyond our vested self-interest in believing good things about ourselves as latop performers what is the reality?

Personally I don't see things in terms of the diagram on page 2. Nor the conclusions presumed from it.

Beat matching is a rudimentary skill for a musician. Operating machinary isn't the same thing as giving a musical performance. Learning to play with other musicians and performing as a team... well people understand how hard it is to co operate with others and form something good etc. Lots of empathy and admiration from the crowd.

What I think laptop musicians should be aiming for is people ascociating the character of the music with the persona of the laptoperator! And for things to not bore on stage.

Peace,
pimpleburger

DGA · Post by **DGA** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:52 pm

Why must the musical performer be a visual object?

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:17 am

DGA wrote:Why must the musical performer be a visual object?

cause people pay to come and see them perform.

when people stop doing this we won't have this problem anymore.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:31 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcRPoAG6 ... re=related

It's a bit gay but it doesn't look like you're checking your email

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:32 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgO2XCA8 ... re=related

starving student · Post by **starving student** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:01 am

that is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen I curse eno everyday for this crap, why can't electronic musicians stop trying to be tron, stop trying to be cyborgs, stop trying to fly under the power of our haircuts, and stop acting like we're conductors and the damn computer is the orchestra, stop hating guitar players because they play,and why o why o when will we just be 'electronic musicians'