nah, then you run into problems with sync and such... if you want some hardware for looping alongside a synced laptop setup then you really need to spend a lot of cash...4am wrote:i'm also wondering about how to live-loop things during my livesets.
my question:
woldn't be a better option to use an hardware looper?
like the digitec jamman looper or similar?
a different approach to looping
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dj superflat
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i've been reading through the mobius manual a little, but so far i ahven't seen the ability to record a continuous buffer all the time.
am i right or wrong that mobius cant do this? i can see that i can hit record, and mobius will start recording a loop, but what i want is for it to be recording a loop continuously (filling and continuously overwriting a 32 bar buffer). when i hit a button at any time i want it to start playing this loop back.
thanks for any advice
am i right or wrong that mobius cant do this? i can see that i can hit record, and mobius will start recording a loop, but what i want is for it to be recording a loop continuously (filling and continuously overwriting a 32 bar buffer). when i hit a button at any time i want it to start playing this loop back.
thanks for any advice
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dj superflat
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well i need something that has a continuous running buffer, so that i can hit a button at any time and it will output the last 1/4/8 (and so on) bars of music, looping them. this is much better for live performance, because you can hit the loop button after you know you got it right, rather than hitting record and then being forced to get it right.
im trying to work it for a guitarist, and for my sequencer, so that i can mix in a new preset/groove while still playing the old one.
ill try out the mobius forum to, but so far its looking like im gonna have to do this in max msp
im trying to work it for a guitarist, and for my sequencer, so that i can mix in a new preset/groove while still playing the old one.
ill try out the mobius forum to, but so far its looking like im gonna have to do this in max msp
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you can overdub i think in the session view. but it would be too fiddly for it to happen in a freeform way.
i think its actually quite simple. all your doing is recording all the time, into a limited buffer. upon stopping it plays it back. similar concept to what happens in those hardware recording devices, when you can press the record button and hear what happened 10 seconds before you pressed the button!
wouldn't it be sweet if it was built into recording clips in live?
one of the limitations i think max is gonna give me is if i tempo change while playing the loop everything will get out of sync.
i think its actually quite simple. all your doing is recording all the time, into a limited buffer. upon stopping it plays it back. similar concept to what happens in those hardware recording devices, when you can press the record button and hear what happened 10 seconds before you pressed the button!
wouldn't it be sweet if it was built into recording clips in live?
one of the limitations i think max is gonna give me is if i tempo change while playing the loop everything will get out of sync.
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I think it's possible in Live! Just not in Session view because you cannot record over an existing clip there (at least I cannot find it). It can be done in arrangement view though by using Midi controls on Loop Start and Length, Audio is easier than Midi, but probably both are possible. I am working to set it up comfortably with my Midi foot-controller now and will let you know once I have done it.
Re: a different approach to looping
I think I figured that one out. At the moment I'm stuck at the point where Live does not allow to record to a set buffer continously (of say 16 or 32 bars) without using the arrangement looper. And to be able to set a loop length to 4/8/16 etc. bars via Midi I need to know the length of the clip, because Live's midi control of a clip's loop length is translated relative to the clip's total length.queglay wrote:i then want to be able to hit a button at any time that will then play the last 1/2/4/8/16 bars (at the end of the next bar) in a loop.
All a bit complicated, but I'm still working on it.
Last edited by Timur on Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dj superflat
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This is what works with Live 7 (edit: it wont work like this in Live 6):
You can have a recording loop (buffer) of any given length, like 16 or 32 bars, by using arrangement loop (transport bar) in Session view.
- Create an empty audio track, remote all stop-buttons from that track.
- Set arrangement loop (transport bar) to your desired length, set Loop Start to 1.1.1 and enable Loop.
- Arm the track for recording and arm Live's global recording in the transport bar, turn off OVR (overlay).
You can start playing/recording now by either pressing Play via transport bar or just by starting clips or scenes (make sure Clip Recording via Scene Start is switched off in preferences, which it is by default anyway). You can use Session view without any restrictions now, start scenes or clips or whatever. This will not work the same in Arrangement view, because then the whole arrangement would keep looping. But for your application Session view is probably the better choise anyway.
- Once you've got something nice, press disable Live's recording via transport bar. Session view will keep playing and so will your loop. I recommend mapping a Midi switch on a foot controller for the Record button.
- To set the number of bars you want the loop to play, like the last 4 or 8 or 7 or whatever, change the loop length via transport bar. This will change the length towards the end of the loop though, so you also need to increase the Loop Start point. I.e. if you want to play the last four bars of a 16 bars loop then change Loop Length to 4.0.0 and Loop Start to 12.1.1.
The main disadvantage is that Loop Start and Loop Length cannot be controlled via Midi or anything, you have to change the values manually. If Live would allow to remote-control the Arrangement Loop fields you wouldn't have to take your hands from your instrument. I'll write a feature-request. The advantage of this method is that you can literally play any part of the loop at any length (like the middle 5 bars or the last 7 bars or the first 2 bars.
Now, it is actually possible to control a loop via Midi and thus automate/control the loop length and which part of the loop is played. Unfortunately that is only possible with existing clips via the Clip Loop. So to control your recorded loop via Midi (like switches, or even better, expression-pedals on a foot-controller) you need to Consolidate the loop (it will consist of several clips which need to be made into one). Unfortunately again Live will stop playback for consolidation. It will only take a few seconds though after which you can start playback again.
This enables you do control the clip's own loop start and loop length fields via Midi (no idea why these can be remote controlled while the global/arrangement ones cannot). You can setup switches to decrease/increase their value in small increments or you can use expression pedals to control their range. With advanced Midi controller like the Roland FC-300 (or maybe the use of some software like Midi-Ox) you can even setup one expression pedal to control both parameters at once so that the Loop Start will automatically be increased when the Loop Length is decreased (so that your loop stays at the end of the clip). It's a also a nice effect to keep them on different pedals, then shorten the Loop Length and control the Loop position by shifting the Loop Start back and forth and play different parts of the loop rythmically (some Reaktor instruments use something like this).
You can have a recording loop (buffer) of any given length, like 16 or 32 bars, by using arrangement loop (transport bar) in Session view.
- Create an empty audio track, remote all stop-buttons from that track.
- Set arrangement loop (transport bar) to your desired length, set Loop Start to 1.1.1 and enable Loop.
- Arm the track for recording and arm Live's global recording in the transport bar, turn off OVR (overlay).
You can start playing/recording now by either pressing Play via transport bar or just by starting clips or scenes (make sure Clip Recording via Scene Start is switched off in preferences, which it is by default anyway). You can use Session view without any restrictions now, start scenes or clips or whatever. This will not work the same in Arrangement view, because then the whole arrangement would keep looping. But for your application Session view is probably the better choise anyway.
- Once you've got something nice, press disable Live's recording via transport bar. Session view will keep playing and so will your loop. I recommend mapping a Midi switch on a foot controller for the Record button.
- To set the number of bars you want the loop to play, like the last 4 or 8 or 7 or whatever, change the loop length via transport bar. This will change the length towards the end of the loop though, so you also need to increase the Loop Start point. I.e. if you want to play the last four bars of a 16 bars loop then change Loop Length to 4.0.0 and Loop Start to 12.1.1.
The main disadvantage is that Loop Start and Loop Length cannot be controlled via Midi or anything, you have to change the values manually. If Live would allow to remote-control the Arrangement Loop fields you wouldn't have to take your hands from your instrument. I'll write a feature-request. The advantage of this method is that you can literally play any part of the loop at any length (like the middle 5 bars or the last 7 bars or the first 2 bars.
Now, it is actually possible to control a loop via Midi and thus automate/control the loop length and which part of the loop is played. Unfortunately that is only possible with existing clips via the Clip Loop. So to control your recorded loop via Midi (like switches, or even better, expression-pedals on a foot-controller) you need to Consolidate the loop (it will consist of several clips which need to be made into one). Unfortunately again Live will stop playback for consolidation. It will only take a few seconds though after which you can start playback again.
This enables you do control the clip's own loop start and loop length fields via Midi (no idea why these can be remote controlled while the global/arrangement ones cannot). You can setup switches to decrease/increase their value in small increments or you can use expression pedals to control their range. With advanced Midi controller like the Roland FC-300 (or maybe the use of some software like Midi-Ox) you can even setup one expression pedal to control both parameters at once so that the Loop Start will automatically be increased when the Loop Length is decreased (so that your loop stays at the end of the clip). It's a also a nice effect to keep them on different pedals, then shorten the Loop Length and control the Loop position by shifting the Loop Start back and forth and play different parts of the loop rythmically (some Reaktor instruments use something like this).
Last edited by Timur on Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
thanks for the suggestions timur!
i suspected something would be possible in live's arrangement view like this, but it is a bit too limiting. not being able to change those loop in and out values is as you say, a big problem. consolidation isn't an option either. and using multiple tracks with different loop lengths can't happend. a vst or max app can possibly solve all this. i try and perform with a closed laptop lid if possible and mice and keyboards are not what i want.
if i get this looper happening its probably going to be a 1 button loop solution, with others to only change the loop length, or reset it. max msp will yield the solution for me eventually. i have a plan that will make it possible, its just going to take a lot of work!
im supprised no one has created a plugin like this before. something close to what im talking about must exist, though i cant find anything.
i suspected something would be possible in live's arrangement view like this, but it is a bit too limiting. not being able to change those loop in and out values is as you say, a big problem. consolidation isn't an option either. and using multiple tracks with different loop lengths can't happend. a vst or max app can possibly solve all this. i try and perform with a closed laptop lid if possible and mice and keyboards are not what i want.
if i get this looper happening its probably going to be a 1 button loop solution, with others to only change the loop length, or reset it. max msp will yield the solution for me eventually. i have a plan that will make it possible, its just going to take a lot of work!
im supprised no one has created a plugin like this before. something close to what im talking about must exist, though i cant find anything.
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I just found out that my solution only work in Live 7. Live 6 will not keep playing your Session when the loop is finished, you'd have to start the session playback/clips every new loop. In Live 7 it keeps playing and you can use session without problems.
Actually you really only have to change two values with either your mouse or your keyboard, that's better than nothing. You cannot do it with a food-stomp though, which is the biggest inconvinience.i suspected something would be possible in live's arrangement view like this, but it is a bit too limiting.